The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

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SpiteAndMalice
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:00 pm

Obsilium wrote:I would like an official ruling about surrendering (and other forms of VP manipulation) if VP are to remain the primary tiebreaking method.

haha I was just posting about that!

What other VP exploits could there be with VP Difference as the main sorting factor that you wouldn't get with other sorting methods?
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Obsilium » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:14 pm

If you can afford to lose by a certain margin stop casting real units after a certain point or just try to get your wizard killed by anything other than mana surge.

When you have nothing left to play for in the tournament, helping your buddy win by feeding them VP (exposed totems, allowing mana surge etc.) Hard to police that though unless you arranged to look through the replay of every game, which would give you an advantage as you are a participant.
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by worto03 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:24 pm

Could this all be resolved by having a play-off instead?

Could make the play off a league game with VPs enabled to move it along quickly and avoid draws?

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:29 pm

worto03 wrote:Could this all be resolved by having a play-off instead?

Could make the play off a league game with VPs enabled to move it along quickly and avoid draws?
I'd considered this myself and theory yes it's a good idea, however logistically in practice I think it'll cause more problems than it solves.

First it's the time needed to resolve those positional playoffs, this potentially could impact on promotion and relegation playoffs and in turn the next season.

Secondly, we won't always just have 2 way ties. The bottom of the Golden Division at the moment looks like this:

Position .....Played Record Points VP Diff
7 Auzarius..... 10 4 - 6 - 0 12.0.... -21
8 Trigz......... 10 4 - 6 - 0 12.0.... -80
9 Incarnadine... 9 4 - 5 - 0 12.0.... -90
10 RafiRomero 10 4 - 6 - 0 12.0.... -236
11 ahMostyn.... 10 3 - 7 - 0 9.0.... -149

To which if we had a play-off at the moment it would involve four players where we need to decide both who is relegated (10th) and who is in the relegation playoffs (8th & 9th )
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:43 pm

Obsilium wrote:If you can afford to lose by a certain margin stop casting real units after a certain point or just try to get your wizard killed by anything other than mana surge.


Okay, I didn't expect this, and you're right it is a potential exploit. I think the only time it would reliably get used is at the end of a season when someone knew that a low VP defeat would guarantee them a certain place. You'd have to be finishing up your fixtures after others

I don't think we can police it, all we can do is ask that players play each fixture with the aim of winning. It maybe falls under the area of Good sportsmanship.
Obsilium wrote: When you have nothing left to play for in the tournament, helping your buddy win by feeding them VP (exposed totems, allowing mana surge etc.) Hard to police that though unless you arranged to look through the replay of every game, which would give you an advantage as you are a participant.
I did expect this - We've got that type of potential exploit in place no matter what system we use, whether there is VP in place or not you can still throw a match or arrange a draw. I think again all we can do here it have trust that people won't make use of it.

From my perspective generally I trust you all play Goo-Power in the spirit that's intended. Hand on heart am I right to do that, or is it being naive?
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Varanas » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:28 am

When you post the rules for a new season could you make it a bit clearer whether there are any changes and what they are? Like maybe put them in a different colour?

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:42 am

Varanas wrote:When you post the rules for a new season could you make it a bit clearer whether there are any changes and what they are? Like maybe put them in a different colour?
Yeah will do - Good idea.
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by vurtan » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:31 pm

I like the tournament in the way it is currently. Every time I'm looking forward to get the matches going.
The only thing which makes me sad is when a match ends very quick due to an early bolt or just a lucky hit. The only solution for that I can think of is to prohibit direclty wizard attacks for the first 2 or 3 turns.

For me I don't really look at the standings during the season, but I get the point in the possible exploiting of VP.
What about adding the turn count into consideration? Maybe by just diving the VP from the player by the turn count will reduce the exploiting potential.

In order to move away from VP is indeed, the Buchholz evaluation.
I know Buchholz from my chess days some years ago. It basically sums up the points from the players you won (half for a draw). In the end it means, that a win over the 3rd rank player is more valuable then against the 6th.
The end result of the Golden Dragon Division would look very similar to the Challonge, only Rafi would be better placed. I uploaded the result from my excel file as website: http://www.vurtan.de/GDD/GDD.htm
The original excel file with the formulas is here: http://www.vurtan.de/GDD.xlsx

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:48 am

vurtan wrote: I know Buchholz from my chess days some years ago. It basically sums up the points from the players you won (half for a draw). In the end it means, that a win over the 3rd rank player is more valuable then against the 6th.
The end result of the Golden Dragon Division would look very similar to the Challonge, only Rafi would be better placed. I uploaded the result from my excel file as website: http://www.vurtan.de/GDD/GDD.htm
The original excel file with the formulas is here: http://www.vurtan.de/GDD.xlsx
Cheers Vurtan, that makes total sense now.

It's a really nice spreadsheet too :-)
How did you get the wins and draws into it? Was it an export from Challonge, or manual entry?
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by vurtan » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:55 pm

The spreadsheet is from my chess days and I used some excel formulas to extract the wins/loss from the challonge overview site. The draws are entered manually because it was to complex to do it just for this one time (and in fact there were only a few).

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