The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

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SpiteAndMalice
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:29 pm

Obsilium wrote:You could use a quality of points system. Here is an example of it in action:

Suppose we had a table as in the Golden Dragon Division and suppose for some reason all players with equal points were tied by previous tiebreak considerations:

suprass81, SpiteAndMalice

Obsilium, Mazy, Viking, Varanas

gary, Trigz

Incarnadine

VoodooFrog

Auzarius

Interpunct

First we settle the tie between Spite and suprass. They drew each other, so we need to see how they do against the next bracket. Spite got two wins and two draws against the group of Obsilium, Mazy, Viking and Varanas, while suprass got two wins and one draw (losing to me). Therefore, SpiteAndMalice is the champion under this system, while suprass goes to 2nd place.

Now we settle the tie between the large bracket. We can see that Obsilium and Viking did the best against SpiteAndMalice, while Obsilium also beat suprass, unlike Viking. So Obsilium is in third and Viking is in fourth. Mazy and Varanas both lost to the top two finishers and myself, so we look at their results against Viking. Viking drew Varanas and Mazy, so it comes down to their individual result, putting Mazy in fifth and Varanas in sixth.

Finally, to settle between gary and Trigz, we note that Trigz was the only player to beat SpiteAndMalice, so Trigz is in seventh, placing gary in eighth. The rest of the positions remained the same.

For the Red Dragon Division, the tiebreaks visualized by the system would be

worto03 (beat michigogo)
Dekronos (lost to michigogo, beat MattyRasker and Contraminus)
SlipperyJim(lost to michigogo, beat MattyRasker, but lost to ContraMinus)

stubar over MrTwister, as stubar beat michigogo.
This could work...
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:34 pm

Mazy wrote:Can you just play two playoff games in the event of heads up records not separating playoff positions, it will take the same amount of time as playing one due to the nature of async.....
Possibly, but how do you resolve a 3 way tie?

Mazy wrote:Another solution to get a better points spread is to play more games in a season, I know challonge doesn't allow for home and away leg games (everyone play twice, 22 games a season instead of 11), could you just start another league table for the 'away legs' then somehow combine the two tables in to an overall classification?.
Summary: No VP's, no ELO type stuff, just W(3)/L(0)/D(1), head to head records will always decide, there won't be endless playoffs because most times it will all work out even if it means people finish in joint shared positions in non-playoff positions.
You might get less ties, but you'll still get ties even so.

We're actually thinking about that idea of running 2 divisions like you say - I need it to be something where the results of each can then be amalgamated into a combined division, and to be fair it would still a bit scrappy to be honest. (Remember I'm having to find and input all these results, potentially looking at two separate fixture lists for each division before inputting every result isn't something that I'd relish).
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Mazy » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:46 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:
Mazy wrote:Can you just play two playoff games in the event of heads up records not separating playoff positions, it will take the same amount of time as playing one due to the nature of async.....
Possibly, but how do you resolve a 3 way tie?
I think I meant to say the three that are tied play each other again once more (so two more games each), so A versus B again then C again, B versus A and C, C versus A and B....does that work? guess it's a kind of mini league.. but what if they all draw! ugh

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:48 pm

Mazy wrote:
SpiteAndMalice wrote:
Mazy wrote:Can you just play two playoff games in the event of heads up records not separating playoff positions, it will take the same amount of time as playing one due to the nature of async.....
Possibly, but how do you resolve a 3 way tie?
I think I meant to say the three that are tied play each other again once more (so two more games each), so A versus B again then C again, B versus A and C, C versus A and B....does that work? guess it's a kind of mini league.. but what if they all draw! ugh
That's always the problem isn't it? :-) (Maybe at that point we go to VP matches?)
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SlipperyJim » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:54 pm

I think gary's rock paper scissors variant has merit ;)

I'd be fine with it myself...

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by vurtan » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:40 pm

Obsilium wrote:You could use a quality of points system. Here is an example of it in action:

Suppose we had a table as in the Golden Dragon Division and suppose for some reason all players with equal points were tied by previous tiebreak considerations:

suprass81, SpiteAndMalice

Obsilium, Mazy, Viking, Varanas

gary, Trigz

Incarnadine

VoodooFrog

Auzarius

Interpunct

First we settle the tie between Spite and suprass. They drew each other, so we need to see how they do against the next bracket. Spite got two wins and two draws against the group of Obsilium, Mazy, Viking and Varanas, while suprass got two wins and one draw (losing to me). Therefore, SpiteAndMalice is the champion under this system, while suprass goes to 2nd place.

Now we settle the tie between the large bracket. We can see that Obsilium and Viking did the best against SpiteAndMalice, while Obsilium also beat suprass, unlike Viking. So Obsilium is in third and Viking is in fourth. Mazy and Varanas both lost to the top two finishers and myself, so we look at their results against Viking. Viking drew Varanas and Mazy, so it comes down to their individual result, putting Mazy in fifth and Varanas in sixth.

Finally, to settle between gary and Trigz, we note that Trigz was the only player to beat SpiteAndMalice, so Trigz is in seventh, placing gary in eighth. The rest of the positions remained the same.

For the Red Dragon Division, the tiebreaks visualized by the system would be

worto03 (beat michigogo)
Dekronos (lost to michigogo, beat MattyRasker and Contraminus)
SlipperyJim(lost to michigogo, beat MattyRasker, but lost to ContraMinus)

stubar over MrTwister, as stubar beat michigogo.
As far as I understood is this the system I described earlier. At least I got the same results like you in my evaluation.

But after that there could still be ties and I would go for an easy solution, like the rock paper scissors. This should be sufficient I think.

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Stitchy » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:44 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:The League format as it stands is something which I intend to preserve. The main change that I'd like to make to it if/when we gain sufficient players is to add in extra divisions using a pyramid structure:

Golden Dragon

Red Dragon / Green Dragon

Magenta Dragon / Cyan Dragon / White Dragon / Blue Dragon (maybe)

this means however that when u got lots players playing it will take 4ever for someone new to join to be able to compete
this doesnt mean a noob (bad) player just someone who didnt play before (it might be the best player around)
So you have to wade through 3 or 4 divisions to get in the top divisions

On the other hand a guy that joined from start only has to make sure he doesnt fall below 8th position and he can stay there forever
Personally i would opt for a much shorter tournament based model; u can have 4 or 5 groups and make 1/8th quarter and semi finals. This way a good player can immediately compete for the top without having to grind lower divisions for 3months first
Obsilium wrote:Look at the Golden Dragon Division over several seasons and you will see players like suprass and SpiteAndMalice staying at or close to the top..
The problem remains however that they only competed with half of the players in the tournament
and if this pyramid gets bigger all it does is protect the current top players even more and make it hard for anyone else to get there.

For me personally it would be a pain, first getting to top division and then being forced to stay or i would have to grind myself back again. this makes the whole endeavor rather tedious and uptight, which is something a lot of players will opt out from.
By then u really cant say who is the best player because they might not be even competing.

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:36 pm

Stitchy wrote:
SpiteAndMalice wrote:The League format as it stands is something which I intend to preserve. The main change that I'd like to make to it if/when we gain sufficient players is to add in extra divisions using a pyramid structure:

Golden Dragon

Red Dragon / Green Dragon

Magenta Dragon / Cyan Dragon / White Dragon / Blue Dragon (maybe)

this means however that when u got lots players playing it will take 4ever for someone new to join to be able to compete
this doesnt mean a noob (bad) player just someone who didnt play before (it might be the best player around)
So you have to wade through 3 or 4 divisions to get in the top divisions

On the other hand a guy that joined from start only has to make sure he doesnt fall below 8th position and he can stay there forever
Personally i would opt for a much shorter tournament based model; u can have 4 or 5 groups and make 1/8th quarter and semi finals. This way a good player can immediately compete for the top without having to grind lower divisions for 3months first
A league structure with promotion and relegation was the intent of the competition format. The official leagues cater to the tastes of players who want a short term monthly competition. I wanted make something which catered to the tastes of players who wanted to play something which could have progression in it over a longer time period.
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:41 pm

Stitchy wrote: By then u really cant say who is the best player because they might not be even competing.
You can say that of any competition. ;-)
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Stitchy » Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:04 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote: I wanted make something which catered to the tastes of players who wanted to play something which could have progression in it over a longer time period.
ehm
i hate to say this but technically u didnt went through the promotion yourself nor did half of the players in the 1st division , which is fine with me, but it seems to refute your point, ie progression for everyone except those that happened to sign up first ,which is the basic flaw in this system.
Like i said before imagine this with 5 or 6 divisions (which is your own idea), it would be a horrible grind.

I challenge you; if u ever get to 5+ divisions, sign up at the bottom and see if your love for progression still outweighs your sense of fair competition.

but i guess that is not going to happen soon

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