Realm Creation Guide WIP

For Wizard Kings (and higher) to discuss the Realm Editor and the creation of realms.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:00 pm

NoWorries wrote:Some of the points of view expressed in this thread seem to turn on whether a person cares much or is invested much in whether the Realms are integral components of an RPG or even a social RPG experience. As envisioned in the Kickstarter, the Realms are intended to be and support both RPG and social RPG experiences. Snapshot is still iterating improvements in this regard. I'm hesitant to nerf RPG-related standards until the full panoply of RPG-related incentives and rewards (e.g., social rank progression) and so forth are introduced.

Of course, there are ways to improve Realms which might open other doors to allow non-Lore and non-RPG Realms. For example, there might be non-competitive friendly Realms where players can do anything they like except promote abuse. But so long as we have only one kind of Realm allowed, we need to support the original RPG-positive vision for Realms and their still-planned related features. Otherwise, Realms become an incoherent panoply of playing experiences without any cohesion because a 5-star rating system alone is not a sufficient means to distinguish what is what.
I don't think the priority here should be protecting the sanctity of as yet unimplemented features which players may or may not care about when they arrive.

The game has been released now, everything that is done should be focussed on increasing the player base. Providing a variety of different types of realms would help with that imho.

Making a subset of players feel 2nd class won't.

A panoply of realms is just what is needed. As it stands we've got 11, that's neither extensive or impressive.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by NoWorries » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:20 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:The game has been released now, everything that is done should be focussed on increasing the player base. Providing a variety of different types of realms would help with that imho.
Yes, the game has been released. However, Snapshot made clear that it was released in an incomplete state. The purpose of the release was to allow them the financial resources to complete their vision of the game. In the end, the best chance to increase the player base is for Snapshot to complete the game. I have no doubt that they are working to do so.

In any case, variety alone is neither an interim nor permanent means to increase the playerbase. Without the tools to distinguish what is what, variety by itself is a recipe for confusion and increases the likelihood that players are mismatched from the game experience they expect versus the game experience they get. Again, the 5-star rating system is inadequate to segregate and match players to realms made in the style they expect to play. Accordingly, the current moderation standards fill the gap... players can be assured that they will play in realms that conform generally to those standards and the 5-star ratings judge its quality in that context.

Also, variety of realms currently is not the problem. The current problem is an inadequate number of realms. There are some realm creators on record suggesting that they will not make realms if forced to conform to lore standards. However, there are other realm creators (like myself) waiting for Snapshot to introduce more robust realm creation tools in the next update... which so far seem largely directed to enabling deeper RPG experiences in realms. Whatever your bias, I suspect that we'll have considerably more realms introduced after the next realm creation update.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:44 pm

NoWorries wrote:
SpiteAndMalice wrote:The game has been released now, everything that is done should be focussed on increasing the player base. Providing a variety of different types of realms would help with that imho.
Yes, the game has been released. However, Snapshot made clear that it was released in an incomplete state. The purpose of the release was to allow them the financial resources to complete their vision of the game. In the end, the best chance to increase the player base is for Snapshot to complete the game. I have no doubt that they are working to do so.
NoWorries wrote: In any case, variety alone is neither an interim nor permanent means to increase the playerbase. Without the tools to distinguish what is what, variety by itself is a recipe for confusion and increases the likelihood that players are mismatched from the game experience they expect versus the game experience they get. Again, the 5-star rating system is inadequate to segregate and match players to realms made in the style they expect to play. Accordingly, the current moderation standards fill the gap...

This is why you implement a Tagging system.
NoWorries wrote: players can be assured that they will play in realms that conform generally to those standards and the 5-star ratings judge its quality in that context.
Which players? How many do you think are actually making a point of reading every post on the forum in order to be able to view those standards? I would think that the majority are just wondering where all the realms have gone, that is if they're even bothering the look any more.

NoWorries wrote: Also, variety of realms currently is not the problem. The current problem is an inadequate number of realms. There are some realm creators on record suggesting that they will not make realms if forced to conform to lore standards. However, there are other realm creators (like myself) waiting for Snapshot to introduce more robust realm creation tools in the next update... which so far seem largely directed to enabling deeper RPG experiences in realms. Whatever your bias, I suspect that we'll have considerably more realms introduced after the next realm creation update.
You're right that the issue is in part an inadequate number of realms. More robust realm creation tools will help with that, but so will a looser moderation system. Realm creation tools cost development time, a looser moderation system costs zero development time. A looser moderation system could be implemented instantly and will lead to more realms being created.

But you still need variety either way. It doesn't matter whether you've got 11 realms or 111, if you don't have any realms of the type that a set of player would enjoy then you'll lose that set of players regardless.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by NoWorries » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:59 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:This is why you implement a Tagging system.
But we don't have a tagging system. Nor is a tagging system planned in the near future (as far as we know).

The Realm Creation Guide serves the systems and features we have now in the context of the near-term planned additions to the game. In critiquing and deliberating changes to the guide, we should take care not to make changes that rely upon the implementation of new game features that may not occur soon or ever.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by NoWorries » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:04 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:
NoWorries wrote:players can be assured that they will play in realms that conform generally to those standards and the 5-star ratings judge its quality in that context.
Which players? How many do you think are actually making a point of reading every post on the forum in order to be able to view those standards? I would think that the majority are just wondering where all the realms have gone, that is if they're even bothering the look any more.

I see how that sentence fragment can be construed as literally as you have construed it. To clarify, when all realms generally conform to the same realm creation standards, then these standards are manifested for ordinary players from the realms they experience. Ordinary players have no need to read the Realm Creation Guide to see those standards. As for Realm Creators, they are expected to read the Realm Creation Guide. It's in an easily digestible Google Doc format, too. There is no need to read and decipher a panoply of forum posts. The link for that document is the first post of this thread.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:07 pm

NoWorries wrote:
SpiteAndMalice wrote:This is why you implement a Tagging system.
But we don't have a tagging system. Nor is a tagging system planned in the near future (as far as we know).

The Realm Creation Guide serves the systems and features we have now in the context of the near-term planned additions to the game. In critiquing and deliberating changes to the guide, we should take care not to make changes that rely upon the implementation of new game features that may not occur soon or ever.
It's not at all hard to implement:

You put the word 'Lore' in brackets at the end of the name of any realm which follows the lore of the game.
You put the word 'Non-Lore' in brackets at the end of the name of any realm which doesn't follow the lore of the game.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by NoWorries » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:08 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:It's not at all hard to implement:

You put the word 'Lore' in brackets at the end of the name of any realm which follows the lore of the game.
You put the word 'Non-Lore' in brackets at the end of the name of any realm which doesn't follow the lore of the game.
That's a good topic for another thread. This thread is about the Realm Creation Guide in the context of the features we have.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:15 pm

NoWorries wrote:
SpiteAndMalice wrote:
NoWorries wrote:players can be assured that they will play in realms that conform generally to those standards and the 5-star ratings judge its quality in that context.
Which players? How many do you think are actually making a point of reading every post on the forum in order to be able to view those standards? I would think that the majority are just wondering where all the realms have gone, that is if they're even bothering the look any more.

I see how that sentence fragment can be construed as literally as you have construed it. To clarify, when all realms generally conform to the same realm creation standards, then these standards are manifested for ordinary players from the realms they experience. Ordinary players have no need to read the Realm Creation Guide to see those standards. As for Realm Creators, they are expected to read the Realm Creation Guide. It's in an easily digestible Google Doc format, too. There is no need to read and decipher a panoply of forum posts. The link for that document is the first post of this thread.
This was what I read when I upgraded to Wizard King with the aim of creating realms.
Screen Shot 2015-12-09 at 20.33.51 (1).png
Do you see anything there about an 18 point guideline which the player will be constrained by whilst creating those realms? Because that's where the information should be appearing.
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:31 pm

NoWorries wrote:
SpiteAndMalice wrote:It's not at all hard to implement:

You put the word 'Lore' in brackets at the end of the name of any realm which follows the lore of the game.
You put the word 'Non-Lore' in brackets at the end of the name of any realm which doesn't follow the lore of the game.
That's a good topic for another thread. This thread is about the Realm Creation Guide in the context of the features we have.
The realm creation guide could be changed on the basis of the features we already have. We have a feature which allows the naming of realms as Lore or NonLore:
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Re: Realm Creation Guide WIP

Post by NoWorries » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:48 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:Do you see anything there about an 18 point guideline which the player will be constrained by whilst creating those realms? Because that's where the information should be appearing.
What is a "Realm"? Generally prudent to read up on such things in associated publications (i.e., Kickstarter, official website, official forums) before spending so much on a mere game.
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