my problems with realms

For Wizard Kings (and higher) to discuss the Realm Editor and the creation of realms.
Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:47 pm

  • It's been said before that adding a "% of Players who Complete" stat in addition to a rating would be objective, useful data. Realms with low %s but high subjective ratings could be identified as quality, challenging realms. Realms with low completion %s and low subjective ratings could be identified as uninteresting grinds or snoozefests.
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    NoWorries
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Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:39 pm

  • NoWorries wrote:It's been said before that adding a "% of Players who Complete" stat in addition to a rating would be objective, useful data. Realms with low %s but high subjective ratings could be identified as quality, challenging realms. Realms with low completion %s and low subjective ratings could be identified as uninteresting grinds or snoozefests.


    Good idea, as long as it was broken down in why they didn't complete it so we know if it was because it was extremely hard (i.e. the majority got banished) or there is a problem with it (i.e. a lot abandoned it).
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    Farious
     
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Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:24 pm

  • So from what I've experienced from the moderating system, I think it's worked pretty darned good so far. Just having back and forth inbetween the mods and myself to make revisions and make improvements to the realms. A 1-2 day turn around for each is a pretty fair cost to make when considering the QA that results, though I'm not sure if this might be overwhelming for the mods in the long run.

    I did find a quirk in the moderating message system as sometimes i'd write a paragraph in my response to see it being completely erased later on...think this had to do with me 'testing' the realm before adjusting my response.

    one idea might be to let players submit without doing the test as at this point the moderator will ultimately be able to reject any unbeatable realms. Creators would of course want to use discretion as the turn around time for being accepted/rejected is there. Just something if you want to bang out some ideas and check in with the moderator without having to complete the king battle.

    Still not sure how much time it'd take to implement but some sort of "encounter text box to word document" could be helpful as reading through the game's text interface could be a little on the tedious side.

    Anyways that's my feedback regarding the moderator system. Overall i think it will improve things although i'm not seeing many new realms come up so i'm not sure how others are fairing with it.

    ------------------------------------------------

    Still curious about any snapshot comments related to the game systems of realms mode. You mentioned an improved encounter system but i'm wondering if there is anything to be gleamed from feedback/data collection regarding the realm mechanics and how players are dealing with them.

    I'm under the impression that something should be done regarding the scaling of difficulty and adding some sort of system to make villager management more interesting.

    I see a difficulty system for realms like:
    1-Tier 1 wizards
    2-Tier 2 wizards (reinforcements/banish +1)
    3-Tier 2 wizards (reinforcements/banish +2)
    4-Tier 2 wizards (reinforcements/banish +3)
    5-Tier 3 wizards (reinforcements/banish +3)
    6-Tier 3 wizards (reinforcements/banish +4)
    7-Tier 3 wizards (reinforcements/banish +5)
    8-Tier 3 wizards (reinforcements/banish +6)
    9-Tier 4 wizards (reinforcements/banish +6)
    10-Tier 4 wizards (reinforcements/banish +7)
    11- Tier 4 wizards (reinforcements/banish +8)
    12- Tier 4 wizards (reinforcements/banish +9)

    something similar to that, perhaps incorporating talismans so you can tone down the rate in the banishment/reinforcement increase.

    Otherwise some sort of system were the AI can constantly reinforce a particular tile/area so that players would have to manage that battle everytime they pass through (this would be placed inbetween player controllable villages and a lord/king battle. I think this would work best as a lord controlled village were you have to decide to
    A)kill the lord on village and raze village to stop flow of villager reinforcements
    b)kill the patrolling squad and go straight for the target (lord obstructing pathway or king battle)

    these wouldn't be placed everywere, just here and there to switch up the flow of the game a bit.

    just needs a bit more of that inbetween battle, meta-game(strategy layer) troop management if even just abit of flavor.

    I am sort of just regurgitating ideas from the other threads but perhaps a little more cohesively? lol, well thought i'd drop some thoughts, hope all is well at the snapshot headquarters! :D
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:10 am

  • anjovi wrote:So from what I've experienced from the moderating system, I think it's worked pretty darned good so far


    Cool! It's meant to be collaborative so I'm glad you feel it's come across that way.

    anjovi wrote:A 1-2 day turn around for each is a pretty fair cost to make when considering the QA that results, though I'm not sure if this might be overwhelming for the mods in the long run.


    I'd imagine if a mod became snowed under they'd just ask another to help out.

    anjovi wrote:I did find a quirk in the moderating message system as sometimes i'd write a paragraph in my response to see it being completely erased later on...think this had to do with me 'testing' the realm before adjusting my response.


    My feedback button sometimes disappears when in Realm Creation mode after going from test to edit, the solution was to exit out the Realm Editor & then go back in. Might be worth a shot, or try exiting entirely out of My Realms after testing & then going back in. If you can replicate it, take a video or some screenshots & post a bug report. It's not a biggie imho but I could see it catching a new realm creator out.

    anjovi wrote:one idea might be to let players submit without doing the test as at this point the moderator will ultimately be able to reject any unbeatable realms.


    I'll have to disagree as changes to the map could affect the chance of winning the palace battle which you mightn't think off unless you play it 'as a player' to a degree.

    anjovi wrote:Still not sure how much time it'd take to implement but some sort of "encounter text box to word document" could be helpful as reading through the game's text interface could be a little on the tedious side.


    I write mine Office then cut'n'paste it in the encounters. Personally, I think that is the best solution as it'll pick up on most spelling & grammar errors.

    anjovi wrote:Overall i think it will improve things although i'm not seeing many new realms come up so i'm not sure how others are fairing with it.


    Tbh my one in development is waiting to see what Snapshot does with encounters, & iirc, a couple of others have said the same.

    anjovi wrote:I'm under the impression that something should be done regarding the scaling of difficulty and adding some sort of system to make villager management more interesting.

    I see a difficulty system for realms like:
    1-Tier 1 wizards
    2-Tier 2 wizards (reinforcements/banish +1)
    3-Tier 2 wizards (reinforcements/banish +2)
    4-Tier 2 wizards (reinforcements/banish +3)
    5-Tier 3 wizards (reinforcements/banish +3)
    6-Tier 3 wizards (reinforcements/banish +4)


    I think the easiest thing to do it is to remove the limit on the number of Citadels & Mana Fluxes, when placed correctly imho they can achieve the above without placing rigid design constraints on creators.

    anjovi wrote:perhaps incorporating talismans so you can tone down the rate in the banishment/reinforcement increase.


    A strategic spell maybe? Though personally I'm fine with an encounter doing it.

    anjovi wrote:Otherwise some sort of system were the AI can constantly reinforce a particular tile/area


    Interesting, I think I'd be up for that. The way I'd do it though would be the Palace generate a special Marauder that then goes to a specific location on the map. However, because Realms are quite small navigationally I'm not too sure the effort of implementing it would be worth it. Perhaps a better solution would be to have control over a special Marauder generation rate that sees them start at a Citadel or the Palace?
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:14 pm

  • anjovi wrote:perhaps incorporating talismans so you can tone down the rate in the banishment/reinforcement increase.


    A strategic spell maybe? Though personally I'm fine with an encounter doing it.

    my god....i can't remember writing that and can't make sense as to what i was thinking when writing it...oh i think i meant 'difficulties' or some 'automated system'. I think i was referring to some kind of difficulty based system..

    otherwise i agree with pretty much all you said except that the way i see fluxes/citadels working best is just use them as a means of distributing an overall % of reinforcement/banishment rate. say if i had a realm with 200 days and 1 mana flux takes that down to 150 that could provide an interesting and if you want more leeway in your realm simply lower the difficulty....hypothetically a standard realm with an ideal balance of story/difficult gameplay would be about level 7, having the higher difficulties as more just levels were you really want a challenge and the realm creators would make gameplay orientated realms. I'd probably change that little difficulty chart to go by half increments or something so that you could have a level 4 wizard situation without the crazy reinforcement count.

    at the end of the day i'm just more interested in having more reinforcements for the lords/king fights. Singleplayer is a good place to throw in these challenges as they'll have a place for people who prefer singleplayer and pvp champs who want the challenge of fighting an AI with 6+ reinforcements....some sort of game mechanic eco system that makes all of the village management/meta spell casting/ adventuring come together in a super engaging way would be the ideal but i'm willing to take steps :D
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:12 pm

  • I think the ideal is if all these factors can be controlled individually by the realm designer.

    One might decide to make a realm difficult via timelimit, another via reinforcements, another via the talisman selection of Wizard Lords, and other via Encounters stripping away bonuses. That gives the player variation in experience. Saying that any difficult realm must have x, y, or z in it just turns off the players who don't enjoy that x, y, or z. Reinforcements are a typical example of a marmite effect on the gameplay experience, some people love those battles, but others hate them. Please don't impose just that as the measure of difficulty.
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:30 pm

  • While i get the need for the mod system we are now in the situation of very few realms, 9 to be exact, and having played them all serveral times its now getting to the stupid point of having to waste hundreds of gold just to play them.

    This is just a nonsense and another thing that is stopping people just having fun. Its just a game right?

    While i have no interest in gold to me this just feels wrong. At this point in time players are getting screwed for wanting to play realms because there is so few of them. I get that it takes time to vet any submitted realms but why not just lift the escalating cost mechanic till the situation is more healthy. Anything that may turn off players is a bad thing and the game cant afford to be losing players which this current situation may well cause to happen.
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    gary
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:32 pm

  • I believe that there are more than a few realm creators who are holding back on developing realms until after the next update in which we anticipate improved realm creation tools.
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:34 pm

  • even more reason to make all realms free to play until there is enough of them as we have no idea when the next update is and then there is the time for people to create realms and then time for them to be approved

    we can't afford to lose players.

    there is a limited choice right now, the game cant afford to be penalizing players that just want to play the game.

    even to have fun allying its costing me stupid amounts of gold.... think of all those noobs in there seeking help...

    its just a nonsense
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    gary
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:52 pm

  • Well I have to say that the introduction of realm design rules along with a moderation system have led to me being put off creating any new realms at present.

    The design rules are still a WIP and whilst they are subject to change I feel like I could create a realm which is considered acceptable today but not acceptable tomorrow.

    I also don't know how loosely or tightly those rules will be enforced by the moderators so again I'm waiting to see how moderation works in practice.

    The reason I upgraded to Wizard King was so that I could express my own creativity in designing realms, but I feel at this moment in time that because I may be constrained in doing this, that realm design is a lot less appealing for me from a creative perspective.

    Secondly I simply don't wish to invest a significant amount of my personal time into designing something which then may be rejected.

    And finally realms are now the full price content of Chaos. They're being criticised on both the steam forums and on here, and I simply don't want to open myself up to that. I think there needs to be a stronger roster of offical realm content available so that player created content is not considered the benchmark of the game. This in itself doesn't mean that I wouldn't create realm content but it does make me a lot more cautious in doing so.

    The sum of this is that whilst I may come back to realm design at some point in the future, at present the prospect of doing so now feels too much like a job than pleasure.
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