1.3 realm tools feedback

For Wizard Kings (and higher) to discuss the Realm Editor and the creation of realms.
anjovi
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1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by anjovi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:15 am

Hey gang! So thought I'd start stirring up my impressions here.

1st of all, Great job! I love that i can create all sorts of scenarios with all of the triggers/flags now. Also adding the touches with mercs and wizards has gone a good way towards fleshing things out some. I'll have to start a thread to list out the possibilities with the current tools.

I feel that realms mode is almost getting to that point were you could tie the bow on it. It'll take some time for me to get through the offline realms (having some truly painful defeats on the goblins & gravelings so far..hehe) but what I played from the 1st 2 realms has me feeling like i'm playing that singleplayer adventure game...."the battles are starting to feel like they matter" for reference.

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The only nay saying feelings i get are generally from little missing bits here and there. I'll try to list and explain them:

1) Special named mercs could use some extra scenarios: I love the new named merc feature, it really brings them out from the crowd and the tie in to encounters will be great. (haven't seen any yet as i've just played through the 1st realm and got the hellhound)

Now what I feel like could be done to tie this whole concept together to the game I think would be encouraging battles other then wizard battles. I want to be able to take them on fights were there not liable to be killed by a wizards no LOS attack spells. Creature battles are a good context for companion (quests) and I think 2 good candidates are:

Village battles: There could be all sorts of contexts to take companions to these places and would really liven up the battles, having special characters that you have to keep alive would make these alot more interesting. All you'd really have to do is allow encounters to be placed here like they are on wizard lords (the button for activate after battle could just refer to after razing the village) the village recruitment system can remain untouched by this adjustment.

Custom creature battles: This is were it could get very interesting. Basically you have a tile that you place a creature battle on. This would work different from a village battle as instead of having a totem, you could simply place an amount of creatures to generate for that battle until completed and have the game randomly place them like they do reinforcements. The creator could tailor a battle that users would have to fight through, keeping there special units alive. Taboo's could also be placed to set a certain challenge for the player. You could further flesh this out by being able to name certain creatures and link them to encounter tools (in the if wizard dead/alive section particularly). Having them linked to flags could encourage you to have a recruitment requirement, so players don't just clear the creature battle THEN grab the companion.

I'd basically have them placed like lords (perhaps change the lord tab to lord/creature battles?) and allow all of the encounter placement around them. Perhaps lords could also be triggered by encounter 'activate' or flags.

2) Having a journal that keeps track of encounters. Everything else aside having a journal that referenced the written material that i've encountered so far would be handy in reinforcing the whole "why am i doing this?" thing. I'm guilty in losing track of lore information when playing realms and ultimately end up detached from the story because of it.

What I would do is have a tab were the realm guide is at the top left for 'journal' and open a menu similar to the introduction journal for offline realms but instead....You click a button for "Encounter Title" you then get the encounter description, your choice, and then the outcome.

Simply a feature to reinforce the immersion in realm exploring when it's lost.

3)Multiple paged encounters
So we have all of these awesome trigger/flag tools. I feel being able to have encounters with multiple pages could really be a good way for people to make that big, kick ass, epic encounter for their realm whether it be a conversation tree with an important character, a maze that you have to navigate through, a ruin or town that you explore, etc.

My suggestion in how to implement this would be:
a)Having tabs on the main encounter screen (at the top, out of the way ideally)
b)call each tab Page 1,2,3,4,etc....
c)Each tab would look identical to the main encounter screen
d)In the choice/outcome editing screen for said encounter have the 'activate' function also incorporate 'page 1, page 2,etc...' along side other encounters. The page 1,2,3....etc... would only be linked to that one encounter so it would be easy to keep track of.

4)Change the taboo menu to "Taboo/Objective"

If it's within reason to expect that you developed tools to create objectives and have them work for the wizard training i think they would work very well for the realms mode. Simply what i'd suggest is:

a)Change Taboo to Taboo/Objective
b)Top half Taboo, bottom half objective menu
c)Have a drop down for objectives to choose and have them activate in the battle
d)Have a drop down menu for flags to trigger if successful

Objectives work well in the training mode and if applied to realms in a meaningful way could up the variety immensely! Reason i'd fit them with taboos is that they both seem to fill the same niche, though together could completely fill that niche imo.

5) Other minor encounter rewards/penalties
This is fairly self explanatory but the ones i'd cherry pick from all of the possibilities are....

a)Add/Subtract Realm score: Being able to adjust a score based on a fulfilled encounter would be great gameplay wise, especially if the triggers/flags to activate this came in combination with the suggestions above.
b)Apply reinforcements: Having an outcome that triggered reinforcements on the spot would be great. You could have 2 options.
-Apply points on the spot
-Add points to reinforcement pool

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I honestly think that if you added these functions to the realms that you'd be completely done with realms..tie the bow, ride off into the sunset, whatever! Basically the way i look at realms is a cool wizard adventure game in a RNG ecosystem. Though the map and all of the strategic pieces are static, the way the battles and all things battles is effected by RNG can give you that whole waft of interesting variations among playthroughs. I feel my suggestions play to the strengths of this aspect of the game while also touching up the encounter/story system. The encounters is that thematic cherry on top, making different choices that effects the ultimate outcome (through activate/flags)

I feel like realms modes could be a great place for choose your own adventure/RNG wizard battling and if you added these tools you'd just be able to just as easily tweak your offline realms to add these features. I could see were 1 or 2 of these features could be tweaked into the offline realms you've made. You could choose to even add extra content to the realms to showcase these new features and i'm sure everyone would like to play them just the same. I'd go as far as suggesting a rework to the online realms system that encouraged players to tweak/fine tune there realms as these features rolled out. Simply getting rid of the 0/2000 realms system and replacing it with a simple 'remove' button that allowed players to take it out and put it back in when tweaked up.

Basically adding replayability in the form of battlescape game systems and encounters to come up with different resolutions for each play through would be ideal to me. So each realm would be something you could replay over and over again.

The business model could ultimately be: Finish the realms tools and have interesting/replayable realms to go at (combined with coop features...setting teams in offline skirmish.. :evil: lol). Continue adding spells and such to the game to enhance PVP/demo game and coax players into buying the full package. To promote online play what i'd do is have "Joolificus" make one really kick ass onilne realm that utilized all of these hypothetical features and was in result replayable enough to give online players a good place to level there dudes up while simultaneously encouraging others to make realms to match the quality.

hope this helps! :D

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Mazy
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by Mazy » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:12 am

Custom creature battles would be good, you mean like one off battles against a lone dragon or giant? etc. I rarely attack villages but love that concept of more battles involving your wizard versus only creature enemies sometimes, battles where an enemy wizard is not always present (they send a minion or two).

Regarding named creatures/mercs/companions, one cool thing that happened earlier was I lost my hound :( (Rengore? I think he/she was named), I rose him from the dead, it wasn't Rengore :( (respawned nameless), at least I didn't think it was him, until the next turn when his name tag reappeared, the return of Rengore!....My doggie didn't have to go and work on a farm after all.

Although my next comment is not related to realm tools as such I got the sense that the offline realms could work better if they were interwoven, like a continuous journey, it wouldn't have to be a series of connected stories, but at least carry gold and loot over from one to the next so you have a good range of configs available to you by the time you are over half way through the self contained series of realms.
Last edited by Mazy on Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

anjovi
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by anjovi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:48 am

yeah that's right mazy! although probably with a larger assortment of creatures...hehe..ALTHOUGH...tied with objectives, say you needed your special dwarf character to kill a giant within said amount of turns..that could be interesting and a short enough affair that you wouldn't be annoyed by it.

Your gear and money does carry over though. You get an equip/shop screen like in multiplayer that pretty much does the same thing.

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Mazy
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by Mazy » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:10 am

anjovi wrote:Your gear and money does carry over though. You get an equip/shop screen like in multiplayer that pretty much does the same thing.
I meant like gold and loot carrying over from offline realm 1 all the way through to offline realm 6. By realm six you could have 5 staffs, 5 body gears, 10 talismans. Something to spend gold on (rather than re-setting before each realm), so your character grows and If each offline realm increased in difficulty as you went along it would place importance on expanding your arsenal.

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Farious
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by Farious » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:29 am

anjovi wrote:Hey gang! So thought I'd start stirring up my impressions here.

1st of all, Great job!
+1
anjovi wrote:I feel that realms mode is almost getting to that point were you could tie the bow on it.
I think there is a lot more that can/should be added over time. Like artefacts that are cosmetic gameplay wise though the player keeps them when completing a Realm as a reward. There could also be potions, & sign posts so we can name parts of the Realm.
anjovi wrote: Special named mercs could use some extra scenarios: I love the new named merc feature, it really brings them out from the crowd and the tie in to encounters will be great.
My realm, Candle & the Mask Chapter 1 has a named Merc who affects certain stuff. It's still awaiting moderation though (it's bad voodoo to moderate your own work :) )
anjovi wrote:Village battles: There could be all sorts of contexts to take companions to these places and would really liven up the battles, having special characters that you have to keep alive would make these alot more interesting. All you'd really have to do is allow encounters to be placed here like they are on wizard lords (the button for activate after battle could just refer to after razing the village) the village recruitment system can remain untouched by this adjustment.
Having the player decide whether it's more beneficial to keep a village and please the companion, or recruit it and suffer a penalty... I can see how that could be fun.
anjovi wrote:Custom creature battles:
Personally I'm not a fan. Imho it'll complicate things for not much reward and it's a Wizard battle game after all :-/
anjovi wrote:Having a journal that keeps track of encounters. Everything else aside having a journal that referenced the written material that i've encountered so far would be handy in reinforcing the whole "why am i doing this?" thing. I'm guilty in losing track of lore information when playing realms and ultimately end up detached from the story because of it.
Having a 'goals' log like the battle log could be useful though I'm not sure a journal is a good idea. My Encounter text for Candle & Mask was 14 pages long in MS Word and though I'd sort of feel compelled to use it I would suspect most Realm Designers wouldn't and its icon would just sit there on the screen, taunting the two people who had actually created entries for wasting their time.
anjovi wrote:3)Multiple paged encounters
+1. The devs should double the Encounter text input box character limit in the Realm Editor and then do a length check and at add a Page 1 or 2 button if needed. I have an 'interesting' solution for the Realm Introduction text, sorta, in Candle & Mask so if it passes moderation you might want to check out.
anjovi wrote:4)Change the taboo menu to "Taboo/Objective"
Imho, objects such come from utilising artefacts, mercs & the like. Objectives in battle merely affect the difficulty of the Realm.
anjovi wrote:5) Other minor encounter rewards/penalties
a)Add/Subtract Realm score: Being able to adjust a score based on a fulfilled encounter would be great gameplay wise, especially if the triggers/flags to activate this came in combination with the suggestions above.
b)Apply reinforcements: Having an outcome that triggered reinforcements on the spot would be great. You could have 2 options.
-Apply points on the spot
-Add points to reinforcement pool
+1

P.s. Looking forward to the next Realm you come up with using the shiny new tools :)

anjovi
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by anjovi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:04 pm

Mazy wrote:
anjovi wrote:Your gear and money does carry over though. You get an equip/shop screen like in multiplayer that pretty much does the same thing.
I meant like gold and loot carrying over from offline realm 1 all the way through to offline realm 6. By realm six you could have 5 staffs, 5 body gears, 10 talismans. Something to spend gold on (rather than re-setting before each realm), so your character grows and If each offline realm increased in difficulty as you went along it would place importance on expanding your arsenal.
aha! i see now! That would be interesting and would probably fit however realm development carried on. Though i'm not sure if the whole system has quite suited itself to that "switching talismans in and out" that's been mentioned around here. It usually doesn't matter which talisman's/equipment you have carrying to really effect the difficulty of the battle. Taboo's are there but they don't quite tilt the odds all that much...

On one hand I sort of like having that 1 playstyle that you stick throughout a realm. A *insert loadout* run if you will. Though i could see that as being a bother for others who'd like the customization in between battles then realms. I'd say if there was continuity inbetween the realms by story/difficulty to accommodate that i think it'd be worth looking into.

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TΛPETRVE
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by TΛPETRVE » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:19 pm

Count me in.
But the problem is, indeed, it zlots at Vlurxtrznbnaxl.

anjovi
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by anjovi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:33 pm

I think there is a lot more that can/should be added over time. Like artefacts that are cosmetic gameplay wise though the player keeps them when completing a Realm as a reward. There could also be potions, & sign posts so we can name parts of the Realm.
sign posts could be nice! just if it worked like an encounter but repeated when walked on or allowed you to open a text box when hovering over it after revealing it in a rumor. Having cosmetic artifacts for fulfilling objectives could be cool. 1 for killing all wizards, unlocking certain flags, keeping certain dudes alive, they could pop up in a menu like how the gold medal does in the offline realms...objectives could also work here..hehe
Personally I'm not a fan. Imho it'll complicate things for not much reward and it's a Wizard battle game after all :-/
Maybe...though you are still a wizard doing wizardy stuff so it's not like it's a complete disconnect from the core gameplay. It'd work alot like village battles do although would allow more customization for the realm creator. Say being able to name some of the creatures and having them work as characters in the realms. It would probably work alot better if you could fit it in with objectives and tie it together with realm scripting like: using special characters for the "check if wizard's dead/alive" section or if you had objectives tying them together with flags. Maybe i'll think about a good alternative for this as i'm sure this could end up being a lot more work then it's worth.
Having a 'goals' log like the battle log could be useful though I'm not sure a journal is a good idea. My Encounter text for Candle & Mask was 14 pages long in MS Word and though I'd sort of feel compelled to use it I would suspect most Realm Designers wouldn't and its icon would just sit there on the screen, taunting the two people who had actually created entries for wasting their time.
What i had in mind for the journal was something a little more simple. Just something that recorded the encounters that you tripped and the decisions you've made. In the journal GUI you could then seperate each of the text blurbs in their own categories. The texts aren't that long isolated and if organized properly would be intuitive to use.
Imho, objects such come from utilising artefacts, mercs & the like. Objectives in battle merely affect the difficulty of the Realm.
That is a good point, though i'm not quite sure it's in a place were your objectives would vary enough. Keep in mind the objectives could be as optional as keeping the mercs alive is. Not having a fail state for not completing the objective but simply not activating certain flags for not completing them.

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Otherwise i'm gonna try my hand at actually making a realm soon, I've just got to come up with an idea for a story.

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SpiteAndMalice
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:48 pm

Farious wrote:
anjovi wrote:Custom creature battles:
Personally I'm not a fan. Imho it'll complicate things for not much reward and it's a Wizard battle game after all :-/

+1 Set piece battles are one thing, but the tension within the game revolves around what spells wizards do or don't cast. I think creature only battles would be a pretty dull affair by comparison.
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anjovi
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Re: 1.3 realm tools feedback

Post by anjovi » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:20 am

I imagine you guys are probably right here, i'm sure they would have tested it by now and found it not that great (probably were totems came from)..although...objectives on wizard fights could still potentially be a thing eh? :lol:

Objectives though..I'll just reiterate that idea a bit, sort of imagine the menu looking something like this:

_____(this means a drop down menu)

Objective 1________------Success =______......Failure =___________
Objective 2________------Success =______......Failure =___________
Objective 3________------Success =______......Failure =___________

Examples for
Success options =Trigger Flag,Win match,activate/deactivate encounter/Nothing
Failure options =Trigger Flag, Lose mach,activate/deactivate encounter/Nothing
Objectives = Just take anything from the wizard training.

Though an objective to kill or spare a certain creature in a wizard fight could be interesting, have a creature selected and input a name to have them automatically spawned as a wizard reinforcement could be ace!

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