Realms and Shrines

For Wizard Kings (and higher) to discuss the Realm Editor and the creation of realms.
Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:56 am

  • Realms I think need to be part of a metagame played between guilds and gods.

    I would like to see guilds fighting for control of realms, perhaps based on how many of their number have completed them, or how many points they scored while doing so. The higher the realm level, the higher the reward.

    Each realm would deliver some benefit to the controlling guild. Perhaps the demigod running the guild could use these 'points' to buy temporary bonuses for their wizards - additional exp gain, or a slow increment of forge crystals, or even a unique talisman or spell.

    Within the realms as well we expect to see shrines where the gods can be worshipped or their image desecrated. This gives another reason for particular guilds to play particular realms, if a shrine to their favoured deity is located there. Worshipping at shrines will lead to 'worship points' that gods can spend to bless their followers, perhaps in a similar but more powerful way to the demigods.

    We still haven't really heard from Snapshot how demigod and godly powers will work, but I kinda hope it's a bit like this. (I realise there would be an objection against anything that gave a PvP advantage based on guild rewards, so perhaps the rewards would need to be mostly non-PvP-related, such as gold, exp, bonuses in realm battles etc.)
    Last edited by Tess on Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:41 pm

  • Tess wrote:Within the realms as well we expect to see shrines where the gods can be worshipped or their image desecrated. This gives another reason for particular guilds to play particular realms, if a shrine to their favoured deity is located there. Worshipping at shrines will lead to 'worship points' that gods can spend to bless their followers, perhaps in a similar but more powerful way to the demigods.


    I am aware of this and have HUGE problems with it. The gods are REAL people, real players, not NPCs. This would not only bring personal conflicts into the actual game play but could be seriously upsetting to people who may have their REAL LIFE FACE defaced. It could also seriously cause offence to certain religious groups even though it is virtual due to the terminology and the fact the 'god' is a REAL PERSON. I'm sure some people will call me a hypocrite for throwing my toys out of the pram but in this case I am. This idea a graphical form of the Peeple app and is egregious beyond all reckoning and would be an utter PR disaster. You have a 'gods forum,' get in there, bin this and come up with an alternative.

    I am so miffed I'll respond to the rest of the thread tomorrow.

    Farious
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Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:43 pm

  • Farious wrote:
    I am aware of this and have HUGE problems with it. The gods are REAL people, real players, not NPCs. This would not only bring personal conflicts into the actual game play but could be seriously upsetting to people who may have their REAL LIFE FACE defaced. It could also seriously cause offence to certain religious groups even though it is virtual due to the terminology and the fact the 'god' is a REAL PERSON. I'm sure some people will call me a hypocrite for throwing my toys out of the pram but in this case I am. This idea a graphical form of the Peeple app and is egregious beyond all reckoning and would be an utter PR disaster. You have a 'gods forum,' get in there, bin this and come up with an alternative.

    I am so miffed I'll respond to the rest of the thread tomorrow.

    Farious


    Not sure how it's different to competing vs wizards in PvP to be honest. You 'kill' other wizards who are real players. Do you bring personal conflicts into that? What's the difference with gods and shrines? I'm not going to get upset if someone from another team 'desecrates' my 'shrine', whatever terminology we use. It's just a competitive game mechanic same as any other.

    (I speak as a Christian in training to be a priest by the way). I'm not actually a god after all - I'm sure we all realise this :)

    Do you have the same issue with competition between guilds? Or is it just the god/shrine thing that upsets you? By the way, to be fair, the 'gods' didn't come up with this idea - it was suggested by Snapshot over a year ago. We haven't been consulted, so don't expect we can 'bin it and come up with something else'. Chance would be a fine thing :)

    FWIW I have played an admin role in another online game where there was actual conflict between the admins that played out in the game itself - now that's completely inappropriate and highly unpleasant. I don't foresee this happening in CR because we're all nice to each other - besides which I think most of the gods have already moved on to other games...
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Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:19 pm

  • Tess' references to being a God are from the Kickstarter backer levels. As an admin to the God's forum I can tell you that some of the Gods totems have been discussed and prototyped. They are not actually images of the backer's face - more a symbol of what that God has chosen to represent them which can be seen in the Loremaster's Guide.

    There is no suggestion that a non-God backer will have their face put in the game and have it defaced.

    The guild system was also mentioned as Demigods worshiping Gods to form a guild.

    No offence was meant and let's all be civil and cool under the shade of a Magic Tree.

    Regards,

    Jim
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Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:31 pm

  • SlipperyJim wrote:They are not actually images of the backer's face


    Oh, was this the misunderstanding? When I said 'image' I was referring to the gods' 'totem' or 'avatar' or 'shrine', which is the visible icon of the god's character in the game. It never occurred to me that someone might think a person's real photo might be visibly defaced. That would be awful. So sorry.
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Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:34 pm

  • SlipperyJim wrote:let's all be civil and cool under the shade of a Magic Tree.

    I just took this advice.. and now I have first degree mana burns.
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Wed Aug 17, 2016 8:57 am

  • If gods want to have virtual avatars or whatever to themselves positioned throughout the game then fine, you're in the intro movie & paid $1000 so I get it, but other players can become gods and having a mechanic that is the equivalent of allowing potentially hundreds of players to attack another player personally by 'defacing their shrine' is just not on. Why don't you just add a 'I hate you button' to gods' profiles in game? It would be a lot cheaper and easier for Snapshot to implement.
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Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:42 am

  • Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

    Any plans for shrines/avatars came from Snapshot. If backers have expectations it is due to the information they have received from Snapshot.

    From the Kickstarter page: March 29 2014:

    For this update I am going to expand on some very interesting game elements which focus on Gods and their followers. If you have backed the game at 'God' level our art team will work with you to create a 3D avatar of your god head. It can be based on your own likeness, or you can create something entirely fantastical, such as a lovecraftian tentacled thing, as long as it is representative of a head (this is a special feature for backers only, otherwise known as the old gods, and other players who ascend to godhood through game play will be restricted to a selection of generic choices for their god avatar). Your avatar will then appear on shrines which are placed in battle arenas. Our artist Borus has created a hypothetical example of a player who is a god of Law and has an avatar closely based on his own image.

    Shrines are not just for show, they are magical structures forged in alchemists laboratories with powerful incantations. As a god you can manufacture shrines by spending your worship points (collected from your followers). Then you can donate shrines to the procedural realm creation system, or give them directly to your Demigods who are organising your guilds of followers. Your Demigods can then use shrines in the Realm Creation tool by deploying them to regions inside their realm. They can also give shrines to Wizard Kings in their guild to do the same.

    During a battle in which a shrine is deployed, any player can offer a sacrifice to it in return for a blessing (they don't have to be devotees of that god). This is done by offering a creature of the correct alignment or gold from a wizard's stash. The more powerful the creature offered, or the more gold offered, the more powerful the blessing will be. The blessing can come in several forms, as determined by the god. It may be additional spells, or power points for a wizards staff, or an instantaneous spell effect, such as granting the wizard's creatures a magic shield. Any sacrifice will generate worship points for the god. If a sacrifice is made by a wizard following a different god, then worship points will be deducted from that god (since the wizard is committing a blasphemy). It is also possible for a shrine to be attacked and destroyed by a wizard who is not a followers. Destruction of a shrine will cause the loss of worship points by the god.

    There is a special benefit for wizards which are followers of the shrine's god. If you are victorious in battle, then the power of the Wizard King is reduced, making it more difficult for him strengthen his defences or to banish you from the realm outright. If you are defeated, then you get a free resurrection to the Wizard Tower of your choice (normally you have to bribe the Imps of Limbo with a substantial sum of gold to be allowed to return to a realm from which you have been banished, and only then to the nearest Wizard Tower). Victory in battle by a follower of the shrine's god will also generate some bonus worship points for the god.

    The effective deployment of shrines by Gods, Demigods and Wizard Kings can help both the god and his followers. Followers can help by seeking realms containing the shrines of their god, wherever they may appear (although they may not enter realms created by members of the same guild).


    If I were you I would save my anger until these things are announced or proposed as acually happening.

    Regards,

    Jim
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Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:25 am

  • SlipperyJim wrote:Any plans for shrines/avatars came from Snapshot. If backers have expectations it is due to the information they have received from Snapshot.


    Quite. And there is no concept of 'defacing' here. It's purely a game mechanic. You 'sacrifice' at your own 'god's' shrine, you get a bonus and the god gets a bonus. You 'sacrifice' at another god's shrine, that god is less able to give bonuses to his team.

    It's a bit like in Pokemon Go. If I take over a gym then I get to claim rewards and the players I defeat are no longer able to claim those rewards.

    There's no personal animosity involved here. And as Jim says, this mechanic hasn't even been formally announced by Snapshot yet, except in the kickstarter and in some prototyping graphics work for one or two of the 'gods'. I do think however that since it was in the kickstarter, it's reasonable to discuss how 'shrines' in Realms might dovetail into this demigod/god metagame in the future.
    Last edited by Tess on Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:23 am

  • Farious wrote:If gods want to have virtual avatars or whatever to themselves positioned throughout the game then fine, you're in the intro movie & paid $1000 so I get it, but other players can become gods and having a mechanic that is the equivalent of allowing potentially hundreds of players to attack another player personally by 'defacing their shrine' is just not on. Why don't you just add a 'I hate you button' to gods' profiles in game? It would be a lot cheaper and easier for Snapshot to implement.

    I don't get the controversy, it's just a game... I play Team Fortress 2 (among other shooters) and in that game I have blasted people into pieces with rocket launchers, burned them with flamethrowers, stabbed them in the back with a knife, and gunned them with all kinds of weapons, and the atmosphere and camaraderie between players is fine. A friend of mine even met her long-time boyfriend there, and you bet they have murdered each other in horrible ways in the game lots of times. :)
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