Realm Escape

For Wizard Kings (and higher) to discuss the Realm Editor and the creation of realms.
Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:17 am

  • SpiteAndMalice wrote:An Exit Portal would be a new mechanic, (as would a new piece of gear that allowed a player to quit whilst retaining gear)


    An Exit Portal could use the existing mechanic of leaving the Realm but marketed as victory as if the Player had defeated the Wizard King and the Entry Portal graphic could be reused with minor alterations for the Realm Map. It is therefore not a new mechanic imho. An object that can be carried that lets you leave the Realm is a new mechanic imho because currently objects do not exist in Chaos Reborn. For example, I am a huge proponent of magical Artefacts but they are not on the Wish List as it is an entirely new mechanic and the closest thing we could come up with was importing Medals from the League but allowing Designers to give them a custom name.
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Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:07 am

  • Farious wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:An Exit Portal would be a new mechanic, (as would a new piece of gear that allowed a player to quit whilst retaining gear)


    An Exit Portal could use the existing mechanic of leaving the Realm but marketed as victory as if the Player had defeated the Wizard King and the Entry Portal graphic could be reused with minor alterations for the Realm Map. It is therefore not a new mechanic imho. An object that can be carried that lets you leave the Realm is a new mechanic imho because currently objects do not exist in Chaos Reborn. For example, I am a huge proponent of magical Artefacts but they are not on the Wish List as it is an entirely new mechanic and the closest thing we could come up with was importing Medals from the League but allowing Designers to give them a custom name.



    And if the player just clicks on the Abandon Realm button? Or they cast a realm spell that allows them to leave? Each of those methods could require less development than realm portals given that both already exist and realm portal don't.

    The point is Farious, that my suggestion was to allow new players to have a means to escape a realm whilst keeping (some of their gained equipment). The means of them being able to escape realms is really irrelevant as far as this suggestion is concerned. Realm portals could allow realm escape to happen, but they're not the only way of doing it, and tying this suggestion to realm portals means that the realm escape function intended for new players is less likely to happen because it then becomes dependant on realm portals being implemented in the first place rather than if the means of new players being able to escape realms is something that is left open for the game designers to determine.

    You may or may not want realm portals to be part of realms, I'm quite ambivalent about it. But at present you're misrepresenting the idea that I have proposed in this thread by tying that idea to Portals. Please either separate the two, or you can't represent this idea as it has been suggested then do not put the idea into your wishlist at all.
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Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:15 am

  • SpiteAndMalice wrote:But at present you're misrepresenting the idea that I have proposed in this thread by tying that idea to Portals. Please either separate the two, or you can't represent this idea as it has been suggested then do not put the idea into your wishlist at all.


    Give it a rest Spite. Having a button that the player can press to exit a Realm at any point with their loot has nothing to do with the Realm Editor, Moderation Process or Realm Design criteria. If you want to have a row then I suggest you go have it somewhere else. This is my last post on this matter and it is closed.
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Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:16 pm

  • Farious wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:But at present you're misrepresenting the idea that I have proposed in this thread by tying that idea to Portals. Please either separate the two, or you can't represent this idea as it has been suggested then do not put the idea into your wishlist at all.


    Give it a rest Spite. Having a button that the player can press to exit a Realm at any point with their loot has nothing to do with the Realm Editor, Moderation Process or Realm Design criteria. If you want to have a row then I suggest you go have it somewhere else. This is my last post on this matter and it is closed.


    Farious, you asked me whether I wanted this suggestion adding to your wishlist. I qualified how I would I like it to be added, and yet you haven't done that. This is misrepresentation.

    You then asked me if I was happy with how you had worded things, I stated I that I wasn't.

    I've since asked you to change the wording. I've asked you to remove the suggestion. You've done neither of these things. Whilst I can I accept that your initial misrepresentation could be unintentional I feel that you're now intentionally continuing to misrepresent the suggestion that I have made.

    If you weren't prepared to change how you've worded things why even ask the question?

    And now because I'm not happy with what you're doing, and I dare say because I asked a question that points out the flaw in your argument of what could easily be implemented,rather than address that question or try to resolve the situation as a whole, which you could easily do, you've decided to become personal and accused me of wanting to row.

    You put yourself forward as someone who would summarise a wishlist of wants for realms. If you're going to fulfill that role then I suggest you do it objectively.
    Last edited by SpiteAndMalice on Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:44 pm

  • Hi,

    I don't see Spite's position as being unreasonable here. Either change the wording to a way he agrees represents his idea or remove it from the list. Why is that an issue?

    I'm not really sure what the beef is here but you know the stance I am going to take - civil discussion or consequences.

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Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:28 pm

  • The Exit Portal was my suggestion after talking with other Designers, see my Realms 2.0 thread & other threads I have posted. When Spite suggested a method for players leaving the Realm by means other than Abandonment, Banishment or defeating the Wizard King I pointed out that one had already been suggested and offered to amend the suggestion to include his thoughts. Which I did. Then another Designer suggested the player could collect an object that they could then use to exit the Realm at any time with their loot and Spite wanted this suggestion added too and then additionally a button players could press to do the same. As I have pointed out this is not what the list is for; if it was I wouldn't have penned a Realms 2.0 thread in the first place. I was told to keep the list focused and use the assets that exist in the game. Chaos Reborn does not have an inventory system and an exit the game mode X with all your spoils of war at anytime button is neither something that can be added to the Realm Editor nor something that currently exists in the game anywhere in any Game Mode. I have long pushed for the adding of Designer created magical Artefacts for Realms but it is not on the list because they do not exist in the game elsewhere so cannot be repackaged and imported into Realms nor can they simply be added to the Realm Editor. As I have pointed out, the list is not a 'game feature' request list, it is a 'Realm Creation & Design' request list and from a Designer perspective not a players' one, though of course they can often overlap. A UI gadget or equivalent which allows players to exit the Realm is a player facing feature & request and has nothing to do with Realm design. It is thus not suitable for this list.

    I therefore do not believe the Exit Portal entry should be removed or altered because:
    a) It was not Spite's idea to begin with.
    b) I am happy with the wording and agree with it.
    c) Spite can disown the idea and argue against the inclusion of an Exit Portal in the game but imho he has no right to censor the idea.

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Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:37 am

  • Farious wrote:The Exit Portal was my suggestion after talking with other Designers, see my Realms 2.0 thread & other threads I have posted. When Spite suggested a method for players leaving the Realm by means other than Abandonment, Banishment or defeating the Wizard King I pointed out that one had already been suggested and offered to amend the suggestion to include his thoughts. Which I did.


    You very much didn't include my thoughts. I made it clear when you asked that my suggestion was not about the method of exit, but rather the possibility for new players to retain gear on exit.

    Farious wrote:Then another Designer suggested the player could collect an object that they could then use to exit the Realm at any time with their loot and Spite wanted this suggestion added too and then additionally a button players could press to do the same.


    Actually I suggested "A special piece of equipment that is given free to low level wizards, but then must be purchased from the shop." as one of the possible ways that a new player might be enabled to exit a realm early whilst retaining gear. It's in the OP.

    After you said that we couldn't make suggestions that required additional assets, I then later suggested that the abandon realm button could be used, I also suggested that a realm spell could be used as both of those methods wouldn't require additional assets. I again made it clear that my suggestion was about aiding new players, and not about the method of exit.

    Farious wrote:As I have pointed out this is not what the list is for; if it was I wouldn't have penned a Realms 2.0 thread in the first place. I was told to keep the list focused and use the assets that exist in the game.


    Both the abandon realm button and realm spells are assets that already exist in the game.

    Farious wrote:Chaos Reborn does not have an inventory system and an exit the game mode X with all your spoils of war at anytime button is neither something that can be added to the Realm Editor nor something that currently exists in the game anywhere in any Game Mode.


    Chaos Reborn does have an abandon realm button, and it does have realm spells, it also for that matter has banishment. The effect when any of these existing features are used can be changed. Exit portals are however something that don't exist anywhere in any game mode.

    For the purpose of my suggestion, whether it is via an abandon button, a realm spell, a exit portal, banishment or any other method makes no difference. The suggestion is about allowing new players to leave a realm whilst keeping some equipment, and there are ways (plural) in which that could be implemented, a number of which would only make use of existing assets within the game.

    Farious wrote:I have long pushed for the adding of Designer created magical Artefacts for Realms but it is not on the list because they do not exist in the game elsewhere so cannot be repackaged and imported into Realms nor can they simply be added to the Realm Editor. As I have pointed out, the list is not a 'game feature' request list, it is a 'Realm Creation & Design' request list and from a Designer perspective not a players' one, though of course they can often overlap. A UI gadget or equivalent which allows players to exit the Realm is a player facing feature & request and has nothing to do with Realm design. It is thus not suitable for this list.


    A exit portal is a feature request. Different victory conditions in a feature request. A mission log is a feature request. Different terrain types is a feature request. Designer created battle maps is a feature request. Awards, Medals, Titles is a feature request....

    And you've titled the wishlist "Realm Feature Wish List"

    If certain suggestion can't be added to your wish list, then you should be making that clear prior offering to add those suggestions. Not after the effect.

    Farious wrote:I therefore do not believe the Exit Portal entry should be removed or altered because:


    I'm not asking you to remove the Exit Portal entry, I'm asking you to either represent my idea as it has been suggested, or remove it from where you tied it in to your Exit Portal entry (dated 28/08/16)

    Farious wrote:a) It was not Spite's idea to begin with.


    The realm escape option for new players, which is the suggestion made in the OP of this thread, is my idea, and I've asked for it to be put forward independently of exit portals because it is an idea that does not rely on the existence of exit portals.

    Farious wrote:b) I am happy with the wording and agree with it.


    Whenever someone makes a suggestion for the wishlist, is you that needs to be happy with how that suggestion is worded, or is it the person who is making the suggestion in the first place?

    Farious wrote:c) Spite can disown the idea and argue against the inclusion of an Exit Portal in the game but imho he has no right to censor the idea.


    I'm neither arguing against or disowning the suggestion for Exit Portals, it's a suggestion that had nothing to do with me. I've already stated that I feel that Exit portals are a good suggestion in their own right. I can understand why Lords of Chaos players in particular would like to see them. For me personally I don't care one way or the other about whether Exit Portal are added to to realms. I'm not censoring anybody.

    But this topic is about realm escape for new players.

    I've asked only that if you're going to include my suggestion in your wishlist that you represent it independently and accurately, and otherwise if you can't do that I've asked you to not include it as part of your suggestion for Exit portals.

    And given that this whole thread has involved you stating what you can/can't include in the wishlist in relation to my suggestion it's then a bit rich that you're then implying that I'm trying to censor anything.

    You need to decide whether you're presenting a wishlist that impartially summarises the views of the community, or whether you're putting forward your own personal agenda. Because in this instance you've taken my suggestion, and rather than presenting it way in which I'm happy, as the person making that suggestion, you've instead subverted it to strengthen something that you'd like to have in the game yourself. If you want to be taken seriously as someone who will reliably present the community's ideas for realms, then that's the last thing that you should be doing.
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Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:17 am

  • SpiteAndMalice wrote:You need to decide whether you're presenting a wishlist that impartially summarises the views of the community, or whether you're putting forward your own personal agenda. Because in this instance you've taken my suggestion, and rather than presenting it way in which I'm happy, as the person making that suggestion, you've instead subverted it to strengthen something that you'd like to have in the game yourself.


    The wishlist is stickied because I thought it would represent everyone's ideas. If it not going to be used for that purpose then it will be a normal post.

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Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:35 am

  • This thread vexes me greatly because once again we have some vociferous posts being made about what essentially is a misunderstanding as far as I can see.

    Spite's suggestion is to allow people to escape Realms. Farious decides this means exit portals. FIGHT!

    If the idea of Realm Escape as presented in this thread does not fit into the Wishlist thread then remove it. Simples.

    Our forum does not need this kind of acrimonious, pedantic rhetoric which serves no purpose other than to perpetuate further arguments.

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Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:35 am

  • In the interest of community harmony I'll delete my Exit Portal entry. Again, the list was not intended to be a game feature request list, it was intended to be a list of changes to the design process, realm editor and related aspects and use resources & assets that already exists in the game, as I was requested to do. I suggest the thread be unstickied and someone else takes it over if they want.
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