Any chance of removing placement limitations?

For Wizard Kings (and higher) to discuss the Realm Editor and the creation of realms.

  • Farious wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:Do you guys get the possibility to download all realm text, or do you have to play the realm in order to access each encounter?


    There are no moderation tools and a Moderator uses the Realm Editor as a Designer does. Every Encounter is opened individually and the text cut'n'pasted to a Word document to check for spelling mistakes and offensive language. If an Encounter has any conditions, activations, or mercs then they are mapped on to a screenshot of the Realm using a paint package such as GIMP or PSP to check for errors.


    Dudes this is crazy!

    @Rafi - Is there no way to give these guys a facility to dump all of a realm's text into a Word document at the click of a button - And if you can't give them the rights, could you have the game do it automatically and then send to a email address or online document or something?

    These guys are giving up free time to moderate on bahalf of snapshot, and whilst they may resemble Superman, they are not he. Surely there must be ways to make the process easier for them?
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  • Farious wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:Also, do you moderate 100%

    100% of every Realm is Moderated.

    Farious


    Is this a thing that you need to do as per snapshot instructions? Or are you guys working this way because you've always just worked this way?

    I moderate as part of my day job, (and this in part is why I never would do for CR, because it's a bloody horrible task to go through even when I'm getting paid for it), but no way would we moderate 100% of someone's work into the long run.

    At the end of the day it's something which is your role, and at the end of the day it whether or not you want to consider it, but my suggestion would be that you and Jim and whoever else put your heads together and talk about what you need to moderate for each of the realm designers and then make yourselves a sampling plan.

    For example, you might decide that with Anjovi you don't need to check his encounters for him, because they're always bang on perfect, but you do need to check his spelling and grammar, so you just sample 30% of his encounters in order to run a check, but then leave it at that.

    For a new realm designer that comes along, you might decide that you will in that case always moderate 100% of their work.
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  • As an aside, it'd be a good feature to allow a moderator and/or the realm designer to make slight edits to realms that have already been released.

    I know that there's a error in Trivonia, I missed it, the mod missed it, but then someone playing the realm pointed it out. It's only minor, but there's nothing that I anyone can do to change it so it just sits there until 2000 playthroughs have passed.
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  • Ideally the moderators should only have to look over essential things like:
    -Balance (no gold farms)
    -If it's completable
    -Placements of strategic structures
    -encounter flags and activations might have to remain a checked thing

    And then leave an opening for realm designers to make quick edits to text, and small things problems that crop up over time.

    The only problem with this clashes with the highscore system, though if the changes are small enough (like typos and wordings of instructions) post release, this could be a non-problem.

    I think from what we've seen, the moderation model isn't going to cut it. Farious and Slip Jim have done phenomenal work (my realms would have been quite shabby in places without their help) but expecting them to carry out this level of work, especially after the update might be expecting too much of anyone.

    I think expecting more discretion on the designer's part might be the way to go following the next update (and possible influx of players)

    But keeping the moderator's work to a minimum, will probably be the way to go from here. So if their can't be any accomodation for realm moderators, keeping the design tools restricted might be necessary.
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  • anjovi wrote:
    I think from what we've seen, the moderation model isn't going to cut it. Farious and Slip Jim have done phenomenal work (my realms would have been quite shabby in places without their help) but expecting them to carry out this level of work, especially after the update might be expecting too much of anyone.


    I bet your work is less shabby now than when you started though, ;-) the feedback that you've received from your 1st realm will of, hopefully been something that you took on board for your 2nd realm, and so on...

    (Same goes for any designer btw, I only used you as an example because I know you've made a lot of realms).
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  • That is true, though another good way to develop is by having feedback sent to while it's in the wild. Having a feedback system that allowed players to drop a line or 2 to the realm creator is a nice way to encourage thoughtfulness in further creations.

    I did think of an idea that might work.

    2 report buttons:

    1)Report to Snapshot
    If a player comes across any foul language or anything offensive, have a way for the player to write a blurb to snapshot. Snapshot (or even the moderators) could then take a look and see about pulling the realm off the list. It might not be as clean as checking before its released, but if you discouraged people from putting offensive material with a harsh enough penalty, it could balance out.

    2)Report to Realm Designer
    If a player finds any major flaws, typos, or just wants to give feedback.Have a writable space for a blurb like 1) and have it sent to the realm designer's email.

    This said, the report buttons could simply use the blurb gui from the encounter editor, and use the same system that the async email uses. The realm designer or moderator (if 1) is taken) could then proceed how they will. Being able to take a realm offline to make fixes could be a nice touch, just have limitations on what can be changed.

    A system like this could still have moderators, but it could come out to being a considerable amount of work load being relieved off of them.

    As ideal as having fully vetted content being released to the community is, I dont think it's very realistic in this type of content. I remember the feedback that inspired this mod system, more being a thing of having official snapshot content, seperate from community content and the amount of realm designing going on indicates that this system isn't quite working, though admittedly better than it was before. (big thanks to moderators on this aspect)
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  • anjovi wrote:
    As ideal as having fully vetted content being released to the community is, I dont think it's very realistic in this type of content. I remember the feedback that inspired this mod system, more being a thing of having official snapshot content, seperate from community content and the amount of realm designing going on indicates that this system isn't quite working, though admittedly better than it was before. (big thanks to moderators on this aspect)


    I think it's about striking the right balance. What you had prior to moderation was a lot of people releasing realms, but a mix of quality. What you have post moderation, is probably a better quality of realms on average, but fewer people interested in creating and releasing them.

    Personally, I was never bothered about the variation in quality in the first place, I just wanted to experience different things and I thought the point of the rating system being in place was to police the quality of realm design. I remember being half way through one realm in particular, I can't remember the name but it was based on the board game Talisman, it was by far the most enjoyable realm experience that I've had to date. Then moderation came in, that realm got pulled along with the rest, and I never saw it again. Whether the designer had gone from the game at that point, or whether it was put forward and failed to pass moderation, I don't know. Either way I pretty much gave up on playing realms at that point. What had up until that point been something that I considered fun and creative lost its spark.

    Maybe an answer is to have 2 separate categories of realm; those that have been moderated, and those that haven't.
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  • anjovi wrote:
    1)Report to Snapshot
    If a player comes across any foul language or anything offensive, have a way for the player to write a blurb to snapshot. Snapshot (or even the moderators) could then take a look and see about pulling the realm off the list. It might not be as clean as checking before its released, but if you discouraged people from putting offensive material with a harsh enough penalty, it could balance out.

    2)Report to Realm Designer
    If a player finds any major flaws, typos, or just wants to give feedback.Have a writable space for a blurb like 1) and have it sent to the realm designer's email.



    Having a report button is a really good idea, for both aspects of feedback.
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  • The other thing that could have contributed to the negative feedback was the lack of robust realm tools. I imagine what happened was:

    Players tried realms prior to the update with the flags/named creatures/activations/etc. and got the impression that the realm designers simply didn't have the same quality as official realms would have.

    Their was never really a chance to see what would have came with the updated realm tools, under the broad community.

    This could possibly be changed come the new update, though other things like high scores, exp gained from realms and the general economy stuff kind of complicates things further.

    Though if their was a way to give the moderators more leeway with releasing realms and then having a system in place that encouraged realms being updated gradually, over time, you could possibly have a good amount of polished realms that were given that quality assurance by the community.

    It's hard to say what would be ideal though, as realms atm is seen as a focal point of character progression (gaining loot and what have you) and could suffer with the more openly sourced approach. Though, I suppose as a king player, it could be nice having the power to influence the community in such a way.
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  • At least for now, the encounters cap is going back to 25. I'll try and look at some tools to make moderation easier in the update after this next one.
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