New Competition for live games - DUEL!

Discussion about all things related to Chaos Reborn

  • Farious wrote:Nope, I disagree. Classic Chaos matches aren't popular because it isn't 1985 anymore. Gamers simply expect more depth and control


    That must be why online p0ker never took off.

    and trying to force people to play a game mode they don't want to simply will not work. All they will do is pack up their bags and move on to one of the 100s of completing games out there.[/quote]

    That is true, and it's exactly why duel format being set strictly to Equipped Law mode hasn't worked.
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • Farious wrote:As for number of players, Steam player numbers have dropped but it is holiday time in the UK and before Duel Mode they were 17 whilst over the last 30 days the numbers are still at 39 (so that's three months of growth following the introduction of Law & Duel Modes).


    Law mode has only existed for two months.

    Farious wrote:I agree the drop is concerning and Snapshot must not lose momentum, but you do not do that by preventing players playing Duel Mode in equipped Law Mode which has been shown to work.


    You could argue that having a game mode designed to concentrate all player into one pool has briefly worked.

    But there's no evidence to show that it worked because it Equipped Law mode was used for that format given that other modes haven't been tried for the same format. If anything there possibility that Duel Mode hasn't sustained high numbers into the long term due to the game format of Equipped Law being chosen and then at no point switched.

    Gamer's preferences work like a Venn Diagram, by keeping Duel Mode at one very specific intersection of that Venn diagram you only every appeal to a very specific group of your gaming population, the rest are left hanging.

    (I don't think 90 second turns and smaller maps were especially helpful either).
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • SpiteAndMalice wrote:
    Farious wrote:Nope, I disagree. Classic Chaos matches aren't popular because it isn't 1985 anymore. Gamers simply expect more depth and control


    That must be why online p0ker never took off.


    Chaos Reborn is based on a niche video game that appeared on a computer platform largely limited to the UK market in 1985 and is not based on a hugely popular card game from the 1800s.

    SpiteAndMalice wrote:That is true, and it's exactly why duel format being set strictly to Equipped Law mode hasn't worked.


    It was been repeatedly said that Duel Mode is a pilot that if successful would have other modes added to it. Chaos Mode is coming next week.

    SpiteAndMalice wrote:
    Farious wrote:As for number of players, Steam player numbers have dropped but it is holiday time in the UK and before Duel Mode they were 17 whilst over the last 30 days the numbers are still at 39 (so that's three months of growth following the introduction of Law & Duel Modes).


    Law mode has only existed for two months.


    The figures are monthly & I was referring to June's figures. Law Mode was introduced at the end of June following which the player numbers doubled and did not drop. This caused a +16% gain in average player numbers when there would have probably been a loss. Snapshot have all the figures for all the game modes. If Classic Chaos was what was sustaining the game it would be trumpeted left, right, front and centre - it is not.

    SpiteAndMalice wrote:You could argue that having a game mode designed to concentrate all player into one pool has briefly worked.


    I am somewhat tired of classic players doing down the game & Snapshot's hard work tbh. You can defend Classic Chaos and ask for new features & more exposure without trying to undermine other aspects of the game.

    SpiteAndMalice wrote:But there's no evidence to show that it worked because it Equipped Law mode

    Snapshot have a year's worth of figures for Classic Chaos, a mode that contributed to average player numbers dropping to just 17. Since Equipped Law was introduced player numbers have increased and Snapshot, who know who is playing what mode, choose the new mode over the old one when piloting Duels. That suggests to me that most new players, which are now a majority, are in fact playing Equipped Law in some form.

    SpiteAndMalice wrote:If anything there possibility that Duel Mode hasn't sustained high numbers into the long term due to the game format of Equipped Law being chosen and then at no point switched.

    You can't argue figures showing an increase in player numbers are illegitimate because they are 'brief' then argue that the same figures show Duel Mode hasn't worked. Again, the plan to force people to try Classic Chaos mode will not work for the reasons I have repeatedly stated. If Classic Chaos was a huge pull you would be pushing for it to be added to Duel Mode rather than everyone messaging each other off board to try to get Duel Mode (and in some cases Law Mode) effectively removed from the game by turning it into a rotating competition format.

    SpiteAndMalice wrote:Gamer's preferences work like a Venn Diagram, by keeping Duel Mode at one very specific intersection of that Venn diagram you only every appeal to a very specific group


    IF Duel Mode wasn't a success you wouldn't be attempting to hijack it to increase Classic Chaos player numbers and would be happy with Snapshot's approach which is both fair and using their resources wisely.

    My two pence worth.
    User avatar
    Farious
     
    Posts: 1211
    Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:36 am
    Location: England


  • I miss 1985 :-(
    Fiat lux

    SteamID: Beamster72
    User avatar
    Beamster
    GOD
     
    Posts: 355
    Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:03 pm
    Location: The Pyramids of Giza, Thrinakia


  • Farious wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:
    Farious wrote:Nope, I disagree. Classic Chaos matches aren't popular because it isn't 1985 anymore. Gamers simply expect more depth and control


    That must be why online p0ker never took off.


    Chaos Reborn is based on a niche video game that appeared on a computer platform largely limited to the UK market in 1985 and is not based on a hugely popular card game from the 1800s.



    You stated that player expect more depth and control. To refute that, I provided an example of a game that is popular despite not having depth and control. I'm glad that you agree that it is hugely popular.

    Backgammon, Monopoly, Risk, Cluedo would be other fine examples. It seems that risk management within games does make them very replayable, there is certainly a market for it.
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • Farious wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:
    Farious wrote:As for number of players, Steam player numbers have dropped but it is holiday time in the UK and before Duel Mode they were 17 whilst over the last 30 days the numbers are still at 39 (so that's three months of growth following the introduction of Law & Duel Modes).


    Law mode has only existed for two months.


    The figures are monthly & I was referring to June's figures. Law Mode was introduced at the end of June following which the player numbers doubled and did not drop. This caused a +16% gain in average player numbers when there would have probably been a loss. Snapshot have all the figures for all the game modes. If Classic Chaos was what was sustaining the game it would be trumpeted left, right, front and centre - it is not.


    If you look at the actual chart you can see that the last occasion where the Max no of players has beaten May's higest is on 8 August. Since 9 August there hasn't been a Max player count above May's top figure on any given day.

    It's hardly meteroic met given that Law Mode was designed to add new players on top of the number of long term players already happily
    playing Chaos Mode, and that other factors may have also led to that increase; global chat, custom matches and Duel Mode being prime examples.
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • So

    Farious wrote:It was been repeatedly said that Duel Mode is a pilot that if successful would have other modes added to it. Chaos Mode is coming next week.


    And

    Farious wrote:IF Duel Mode wasn't a success you wouldn't be attempting to hijack it to increase Classic Chaos player numbers and would be happy with Snapshot's approach which is both fair and using their resources wisely.


    You're actually contradicting yourself with these two statements.

    Snapshot have stated that Duels starting of in Law Mode is a trial, and that other modes would come if successful.

    If players feel that Duels have been positive and are then asking for other game modes to be available as a means to play Duels, how is that 'hijacking' Duel.

    Duels and Law Mode aren't synonymous.

    A 'fair' approach would be to allow Duels to be playable via all modes of the game. At the moment you seem to have a bit of an 'I'm alright Jack attitude' towards Duels being available in the game mode that you prefer to play and to not want to let other people share in that. That as an approach is decidedly 'unfair' and goes a long way to explain why people are calling for other Modes to be made available within duels.
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • Farious wrote:If Classic Chaos was a huge pull you would be pushing for it to be added to Duel Mode rather than everyone messaging each other off board to try to get Duel Mode (and in some cases Law Mode) effectively removed from the game by turning it into a rotating competition format.



    Who's messaging who offline?

    I know that I'm not, if as you've previously stated a couple of people have approached you offline and said something that you feel is untoward then you should report that to the mods.

    I don't think it's fair on your part however if you're using that alledged incident as an excuse to now attack Classic Chaos players as a whole and tar anyone playing Classic Chaos mode with the same brush.

    It's quite a depraciating statement to imply that posters on the forum are not capable of drawing their own conclusions and sharing their own personal thoughts on this (or any other topic) given that you clearly are yourself.

    I am pushing for Classic Chaos to be added to Duel Mode. I also think that Duel Mode should be opened up to formats involving more players, and that turn times should be increased. My preference is for a daily challenge mode which offers something new to players each day.

    That's my personal view on the matter based on a suggestion made by I believe Matty on this forum. I feel that it's the format which would lead to the most success for the game as a whole. There's certainly been no offline discussion between me and anyone else on the topic. Whilst I personally have no interest in playing Law Mode I have no interest in seeing it removed from the game either, I think it serves a purpose in reducing negative reviews.

    Did you not see that Law Modes were included as part that suggestion for a revolving daily challenge? Or is it more that you don't want to share Duels with other formats? If Duels have been successful why wouldn't you want to share that with all players rather than whatever percentage enjoy Law Mode.
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • Farious wrote:Since Equipped Law was introduced player numbers have increased and Snapshot, who know who is playing what mode, choose the new mode over the old one when piloting Duels. That suggests to me that most new players, which are now a majority, are in fact playing Equipped Law in some form.


    Only snapshot can answer why they chose Equipped Law as the reason for piloting Duel Mode. Maybe they thought it would appeal more to new players, it is a simplier way to play the game; maybe they thought that existing players would like it, or wanted to find out whether that would be the case.

    Duels have been put forward as way to pool all players into one game mode so they are a good means of trying to get people to try something new.

    But I think the only reason that new player will have played more Equipped Law mode is because it was the mode presented them. By definition a brand new player doesn't have a preferred way of playing until/unless they have tried different game modes. And by only making Duels available in one game mode snapshot have left whether or not those players are retained within the game down to that game mode. I think this has been a mistake.

    Still it would be interesting to see which way Duels are played the most once they are available to play in different game modes.
    Image

    The Guild of the Cephalopods is now recruiting - We embrace all.

    - Chief Tentacle Arranger in The Guild of the Cephalopods.
    User avatar
    SpiteAndMalice
    DEMIGOD
     
    Posts: 6189
    Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:45 pm
    Location: UK


  • SpiteAndMalice wrote:Did you not see that Law Modes were included as part that suggestion for a revolving daily challenge? Or is it more that you don't want to share Duels with other formats? If Duels have been successful why wouldn't you want to share that with all players rather than whatever percentage enjoy Law Mode.


    As I and others have said ad nauseam other modes are being added to Duel Mode and Chaos Mode is being added possibly as soon as next week. As the 'Community' driven Roadmap thread indicates this has nothing to do with people being able to play Duel Mode as they want and everything to do with the perception from a group of Classic Chaos players that Duel Mode is stealing 'their' players and so should be removed from the game and they think they can sell this to Snapshot by disguising it in the form of a rotating competition. Of course this view, is in my opinion, utterly misguided.

    I am ending this discussion on my part here.
    Farious
    User avatar
    Farious
     
    Posts: 1211
    Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:36 am
    Location: England

PreviousNext


Return to General Discussion




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests
cron