Neutral shift

Discussion about all things related to Chaos Reborn
Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:21 pm

  • I say we change the name of Neutral to Brian.
    yovargas
     
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Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:54 pm

  • stubar wrote:You could call the centre what you like e.g centre, neutral or Brian if you wish. Neutral spells are in game terminology and don't have to equal real world definitions.

    So you'd have neutral on a point of the triangle and then call the centre?

    Neutral is a real world term defined as:

    Not supporting or helping either side in a conflict, disagreement, etc.; impartial:

    It's not its own faction.

    There's a scale for alignment with the game wherein the world state shifts on a scale between Law and Chaos, the centre point of that scale is called Neutral. There's not a shift between Law and Neutral, Chaos and Neutral, and then a Separate one between Law and Chaos, it's one scale.

    stubar wrote:Do law and chaos spells on our current linear system tally with the real world?


    Yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOyCNLpwRY

    stubar wrote:JG's suggestion could be displayed graphically with a flattened version of the triangle to reduce emphathis from neutral spells as he suggested.


    Yeah it could a very flat triangle, in fact it could be called a line. ;-)
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:41 am

  • Not a completely flattened triangle... e.g

    Image

    You yourself have capitalised the words "Law" "Chaos" and "Neutral" when referring to the spells in the game. So you must recognise these are labels that have been applied to the spell types by JG, they are names. If they are applied as names then dictionary definition isn't necessary. But as you choose to do so, why not choose an alternative dictionary definition that doesn't support your argument? i.e "neutral = 2. having no strongly marked or positive characteristics or features."

    You need to think outside of the err... triangle :lol:
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    stubar
     
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:19 am

  • stubar wrote:Not a completely flattened triangle... e.g

    Image



    Flatter please, keep going.

    stubar wrote:You yourself have capitalised the words "Law" "Chaos" and "Neutral" when referring to the spells in the game. So you must recognise these are labels that have been applied to the spell types by JG, they are names.


    I'm just a sloppy typist. I'm sure if you look back through my posts I'll be typing Law, Chaos, and Neutral in a mix and capital and small case (I don't think I'll ever be typing them in neutral case however).

    stubar wrote:If they are applied as names then dictionary definition isn't necessary. But as you choose to do so, why not choose an alternative dictionary definition that doesn't support your argument? i.e "neutral = 2. having no strongly marked or positive characteristics or features."

    You need to think outside of the err... triangle :lol:


    It's not a matter of semantics, neutral as referred to in this case means the middle point between law and chaos, hence why the game starts off there and it's given a value of zero, it marks a balance between two states within the game world.

    Yes the word has other uses, but we're not referring to someone's vocal quality or designing a colour scheme for a spare bedroom.

    "Why yes this beige is very neutral Brian" she said unobjectionably.

    Just as every time we cast a Dwarf we're not expecting a small star to light up the sky, and every use of an Elf doesn't lead to the game engine becoming better lubricated.
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:43 am

  • If Neutral creatures are going to be affected by shifts, you might as well just abolish the category & divide the creatures between Chaos & Law. Maybe it's more nostalgia for me, but I would be quite disappointed if the concept of Neutral being immune from shifts was altered & I've never heard, as far as I can remember, anyone actually raise Neutral & the Cosmic Balance as an issue.
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    Farious
     
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:49 am

  • Farious wrote:If Neutral creatures are going to be affected by shifts, you might as well just abolish the category & divide the creatures between Chaos & Law. Maybe it's more nostalgia for me, but I would be quite disappointed if the concept of Neutral being immune from shifts was altered & I've never heard, as far as I can remember, anyone actually raise Neutral & the Cosmic Balance as an issue.


    I was just thinking similar. This all stems from new players being offered 3 staffs at the start of the game (Law, Neutral and Chaos). The game as a whole might work better if players were offered all staff types and/or if the alignment based staffs weren't available within the game as a whole.
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:58 am

  • Cosmic Balance.png
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:03 am

  • One of the problems for Neutral spells is that they never receive a boost and as someone posted earlier giants always remain at 40%, it would be nice to have some strategy where their cast chance increases. I'm not sure about the OP's suggestion, whether I like it or not. An alternative (not sure I like this either but as a suggestion) would be to have a separate Neutral meter that would increase with each Neutral spell cast but decay over time. Depending on the value on the Neutral meter would depend on the boost Neutral spells would get, but decay each turn.
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    stubar
     
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:08 am

  • stubar wrote:One of the problems for Neutral spells is that they never receive a boost and as someone posted earlier giants always remain at 40%, it would be nice to have some strategy where their cast chance increases. I'm not sure about the OP's suggestion, whether I like it or not. An alternative (not sure I like this either but as a suggestion) would be to have a separate Neutral meter that would increase with each Neutral spell cast but decay over time. Depending on the value on the Neutral meter would depend on the boost Neutral spells would get, but decay each turn.


    A better alternative would be to just make them stronger as a whole imho.

    If Giants aren't viable at 40%, make them 50% or increase their Magic Power for instance.

    Neutral spells shouldn't be affected by alignment in anyway imho.
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:04 am

  • Yeah, I thought the whole advantage of Neutral spells is that they're not affected by alignment shifts, while being slightly easier to cast compared with Law/Chaos counterparts. If it was Lawful, a giant might well be a 20% cast (that rock throw is devastating for a wizard, so I consider it a very powerful summons), so the advantage is easier to cast, the disadvantage is it'll never change. If you have a Sapphire Dragon and the universe goes Chaotic, a Giant is still a better spell to have in your deck. So there are pros and cons, some asymmetry is nice to have.
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