Neutral shift

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Re: Neutral shift

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:38 am

yovargas wrote:One other possibility - and one I've actually had in mind for some time as a very reasonable change - is to simply cap how far the shift can go. If it was capped at, say 35% or even 50%, the alignment shift wouldn't feel like quite as insane to those staying neutral.

(I'll wait for Spite to tell me why this is a terrible idea. :P ;) )

It should actually cap at 80% imho. The Dragon is the lowest cast % creature in the game, at an alignment of Law +80% it becomes a 100% cast. There's no need for alignement to go beyond 80% other than to further cement that game state. If it capped out at 80% then that Dragon could still be a 100% cast (which I think should be obtainable) but a equally any Chaos spell cast would still have the possibility to reduce that casting chance. The Law/Chaos shift spells in particular would gain a boost in this situation.

There's a couple of inconsistencies in how spells affect alignment too btw Triple Magic Attacks are now 60% casts that shifts alignment to Law by 5% (At 60% it should only shift by 4%) The Dwarf is 90% but shifts alignment by 2%

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Re: Neutral shift

Post by yovargas » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:38 am

Well, the point of my idea was that the really big spells wouldn't ever quite hit 100%, which is what puts Neutral at such a massive potential disadvantage. It'd be a simple and elegant way to give neutral a better fighting chance when alignment goes all the way. 80% wouldn't really address that, though I agree with your general point even if we want 100% dragon casts, 80% would make for better gameplay.

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Re: Neutral shift

Post by 9214 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:31 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:
Bob wrote:
One other way I can see to give neutral it's own strength is to add more fliers to neutral. Just and idea to help them gain an identity.
How about a range 6 Bat?
Nay, we need Ghost. Flying, Undead, can Subvert enemy creature by installing oneself in it, spawns from the Crypt which you may place only on tombstone of other creature.

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Re: Neutral shift

Post by Farious » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:56 pm

A Ghost being able to attack from inside terrain or friendly structures/growths would be powerful enough? As for Neutral mounts, I'm still longing for a horses return but I suppose a compromise could be a hippogriff? Half Eagle, half Horse?

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Re: Neutral shift

Post by anjovi » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:49 am

From the game's i've played it the law/chaos shift seems to stay under the 5% mark...I wonder if that might be pushing it a little. It feels like the strategy of shifting law/chaos gets completely overshadowed by the move by move actions. By that I mean reacting to your opponents move, taking advantage of an immediate situation on the board.

Although i'll admit i never really factor the shifting into my strategy apart from saving cards for whichever polarity it's shifting to.

I wonder if players will find a way to take advantage of the way things work now or if it'll need a slight buff. This is all in Law mode mind you, i'll have to try some chaos though I have to admit law's starting to subvert me. It's really improved since the launch of it.

Otherwise for possible neutral, late game buff ideas..i don't believe i've seen this mentioned but what if:

Neutral spells got a boosting chance depending on how many turns have passed & how close it is to neutral?

Probably a little complicated...maybe not?

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Re: Neutral shift

Post by Mazy » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:58 pm

anjovi wrote:From the game's i've played it the law/chaos shift seems to stay under the 5% mark.
I've only played a couple of games (which featured more than 2 players in) using the new system, so it's still early to call but yeah the alignment didn't budge much at all (5% maybe), didn't really do it's job, but then again none of the players in either of those particular games really required an alignment shift either way.

I don't fully understand the reason for (or reasoning behind) the narrowing of alignment shift values on the cards, does it undermine the alignment mechanic? (in traditional 1v1/3/4ways).. Extreme alignment swing was only occurring occasionally in 6ways, which is a format that is still in its infancy and doesn't work that well as a FFA yet (but this is more to do with having to face 5 opponents using an average deck size of only around 20 spell cards, which is fine for the formats the game is balanced for - 1v1/3/4way).

In a nutshell, very high % casts push the alignment by 2 (e.g, 90% - very easy to cast, shifts the alignment by 2), mid to low % casts push the alignment by only 3 or 4 (e.g, 40% - high chance of cast failure, shifts the alignment by 4 if successful).. that is quite a narrow range.

I haven't really tested it enough to see how much it's nerfed the alignment mechanic in 1v1/3/4ways... the part I don't understand is, how is it a benefit to neutral spells?

..players that use neutral staffs still want the alignment to shift to law or chaos (considerably) because they cast law and chaos spells to, the beauty of using a neutral staff is that you don't care which way the alignment goes, it benefits you either way, it makes one set of your spells easier to cast.

In classic mode you want the alignment to play a big part because otherwise it just becomes a case of whoever casts the most amount of successful '50-50' casts (at zero alignment) wins... I've always found the best classic mode games usually feature an early law or chaos shift card played for precisely this reason.

I wonder if law and chaos staffs have been balanced for law mode, the stats on law/chaos staffs are becoming increasingly disproportionate (compared to all other staffs). The alignment mechanic change could be a nerf to law/chaos staffs to, because their stats factor in any advantages that they might gain from the alignment swinging (or from being able to dictate the swing)..

..I'm not sure pure chaos or pure law staffs can control the alignment quite as much you would expect them to (I haven't used one for a long time though, I need to try the full chaos/full law route more often, I hope it is still viable). Perhaps it will become harder to counter-swing the alignment now, we shall see .. Overall, my initial impression is that the alignment value changes might actually nerf neutral staffs instead of buff them.