New Player feedback on tutorials

Discussion about all things related to Chaos Reborn
User avatar
RafiRomero
Posts: 1278
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:36 am
Location: Cumbria, UK
Contact:

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by RafiRomero » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:07 am

My player-made tutorial contains no lore, it is a "this is a wizard tower, it can be used to move rapidly around the map".
It explains you'd normally have a story with choices (and normally objectives would be defended), but it was designed purely to introduce realm concepts like the flux and the citadel, so I kept all that stuff out (also, I felt like there was very little room for story stuff with all the explaining I was doing).
Play it and have a look, it is very short.
Image

yovargas
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:17 pm

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by yovargas » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:39 am

I don't know what "conforms to the lore" means, but a big part of why Rafi's tutorial is successful is because it has as little reading in it as possible. Just the info you need, nothing else.

User avatar
Tess
GOD
Posts: 2217
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:23 pm
Location: Truro

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by Tess » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:54 pm

My experience of the tutorials was much like krayzkrok. They were to the main Chaos game as chess puzzles ("find checkmate in 3 moves" etc) are to playing proper chess. They were actually fun (and difficult!) in their own right. I haven't played them in law mode.

I like the idea of calling them Wizard Academy and having more 'scenarios'.

User avatar
Mazy
Posts: 1789
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:24 pm
Location: UK

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by Mazy » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:55 pm

I had a plan to do a series of tutorials using the realm editor to.. several realms, each one covering different aspects of chaos mechanics, gradually moving towards more advanced concepts with each tutorial, kinda like a wizard narrator guiding an apprentice through each realm, learning stuff as they go.. really detailing all the basics, filling in any gaps other tutorials may have missed, expanding upon, covering every possible aspect of the game.

I had a lot of it all already mapped out, still have pages of notes on it, they were going to be mixed with some kind of stand-alone 'story' (or perhaps even story-less), not sure any of it conformed to lore though and now that there are 2 modes it might be confusing, I'm sure there are ways around this though.

User avatar
9214
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:15 pm

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by 9214 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:04 pm

I've posted my feedback back in october. You may want to take a look at it.

yovargas
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:17 pm

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by yovargas » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:18 pm

9214 wrote:Without core gameplay mechanics: card burning, spell boosting, balance shifting and bluffing it's just a lucky dice rolls, a so-called "bad RNG game" which most steam reviewers complained about. Newcomer will start his first tutorial and what he'll see? Pure luck in casting/attacking on flat ground without clear positioning advantage + the numerical superiority on the enemy's side (damn Rats!).
70% of succeful Lion cast means that with 30% chance you'll fail + you can't mitigate that probability with boost or illusions. I've actually failed 3 Lions in a row and was completely surrounded with Rats and Goblins in my first playthrough, for an unexperienced newbie that may be finished with ragequitting and completely distaste of the game.
This was 100% my experience when I 1st played the tutorials (except I failed 4 Lions in a row).

User avatar
AllenStroud
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:09 pm

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by AllenStroud » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:10 pm

yovargas wrote:I don't know what "conforms to the lore" means, but a big part of why Rafi's tutorial is successful is because it has as little reading in it as possible. Just the info you need, nothing else.
It doesn't mean much or perhaps mean as overbearing as it sounds. Just that there isn't any contradictions in the storyline to stuff we've taken a lot of time and trouble to write up. If the realm is very specific, then I doubt there's much to worry about at all.

I'll make some time to play it and see.

User avatar
Bob
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:11 pm
Location: US

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by Bob » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:03 pm

Not new player, but introduced enough and here are a few suggestions I have heard.

*Take random chance out of tutorial and script it
*Move challenges or make them wait till i have done full tutorial
*Show the chance a spell will fail, not succeed (I.e a dragon would be 80% fail chance) It helps you understand and not hate the fails as much.
*How do I use my wizard while mounted/dismount

Also something from me on the lore side of things, I would love to see a lore section, perhaps with game guide that can essentially describe all the parts of a realm and what realms are within a lore perspective, maybe even make it unlockable to have something to shoot for.

User avatar
Nocturnal
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:52 pm
Location: BG

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by Nocturnal » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:35 pm

Bob wrote:*Show the chance a spell will fail, not succeed (I.e a dragon would be 80% fail chance) It helps you understand and not hate the fails as much.
I find this suggestion super interesting!
I'm not sure I like it, but it's definitely food for thought.

User avatar
9214
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:15 pm

Re: New Player feedback on tutorials

Post by 9214 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:05 pm

Nocturnal wrote:
Bob wrote:*Show the chance a spell will fail, not succeed (I.e a dragon would be 80% fail chance) It helps you understand and not hate the fails as much.
I find this suggestion super interesting!
I'm not sure I like it, but it's definitely food for thought.
Nice!

You may get a Sapphire Dragon with 1/5 chance, which is good.
But that also means that you can fail cast of a Dragon with 4/5 chance, which is not quite good.
But THAT also means that you have 4/5 chance to get 12 mana for failing a cast. And that's not bad at all!

There's no good or bad outcomes. There's just some stuff that happens. Whenever you're ready to live with any outcome of your move - you've settled to The Path.

I wish tutorials to look like Zen coans. :geek:

Locked