Epic Staffs - coming soon

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Julian Gollop
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Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by Julian Gollop » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:50 am

We are designing some epic staffs which you will be able to buy for gold (lots of gold!). One epic staff will be made for each staff type, starting with Law and Chaos. Each staff has a unique visual design with animation and special visual effects. However, we are not sure exactly what might be the most desirable way to implement their game mechanics.
Here are the two basic options:
  • They are unique staffs with a unique mega-spell (which would be new spells). Otherwise they follow the same stat rules as other staffs.
  • They are just a visual upgrade to one of your existing staffs. The staff retains its stats, but uses the new epic visual design.
Optionally, they could be customisable for colours and adornments using a forge type system.

Any feedback appreciated.

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Tess
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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by Tess » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:30 am

Since I almost exclusively play vs AI, I love the idea of Epic Gear giving slight boosts to stats. It would be even more satisfying if this gear was only available through completing realms as well, rather than purchasable at the shop.

Of course for PvPers this would not be much fun. They'd be forced to play realms just to be able to get back to a level playing field with other players. Awful idea.

This is the problem with balancing - what's really cool and fun for a single player or co-op experience is bloody awful for PvP balance.

I would love to see some variation in gear stats throughout the realms, so that we can be 'finding' common, rare, epic, legendary gear as we travel along and even if we have the gear we want there's always a chance of finding a better version. Gear could be dispensed not just in shops but as the result of some wizard battles. If you do find a particularly good piece of gear in a shop it would be information you could pass on to your guild when they are implemented.

Unfortunately anything like this would unbalance PvP because you'd have experienced players with objectively better gear fighting newer players with the basics.

I don't envy you trying to square this circle. PvP for me should always be a level playing field. PvE should always be gradually incremental in power and challenge.

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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:32 am

Julian Gollop wrote: [*]They are just a visual upgrade to one of your existing staffs. The staff retains its stats, but uses the new epic visual design.
This is my preference on the basis that I don't like the idea of PvP matches where one player has access to spells that another player doesn't.

Visual additions ont the other hand are a nice and fair way to reward dedicated gameplay.

BTW - Will the new mega spells be available in Classic either way?
Julian Gollop wrote: Optionally, they could be customisable for colours and adornments using a forge type system.
This would be very nice regardless.

Again, will colour customisation be available in classic mode at any point?

Re: Adornments - How about some kind of personalised graphical badge that could be attached to staffs or body gear? You could maybe link them to steam achievements, wizard level, realms completed, and/or in game competitions.
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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:35 am

Tess wrote: This is the problem with balancing - what's really cool and fun for a single player or co-op experience is bloody awful for PvP balance.

I don't envy you trying to square this circle. PvP for me should always be a level playing field. PvE should always be gradually incremental in power and challenge.
Make all gear available from the start in PvP. Keep gear acquisition as a realms thing, you can do what you want with it then, and PvP is always fair.
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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by yovargas » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:51 am

Julian Gollop wrote:[*]They are unique staffs with a unique mega-spell (which would be new spells). Otherwise they follow the same stat rules as other staffs.
As long as this unique mega isn't designed to necessarily be the best mega (and is available randomly in Classic), I would love this. I just don't want to ever feel like I have to grind for power to be on even footing on PvP.
Make all gear available from the start in PvP. Keep gear acquisition as a realms thing, you can do what you want with it then, and PvP is always fair.
Ick, no. If I couldn't use my realm gear in PvP, realms would no longer have a point for me and I'd stop playing them at all.

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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by Mazy » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:40 pm

I don't really understand the concept of this. I guess for obvious reasons unique visuals would be the way to go rather than unique stats (unforgeable stats, unforgeable megas). I'm not really into the visual customisation stuff, I know players are in to it though. For me, when I'm in a game using my default zoomed-out top-down view all wizards look the same, you cant really see the unique visuals, so visual customisation is mostly just for profile screens.

I preferred it when the staff types looked like the actual staffs they are supposed to be, visual customisation kinda only served to disguise them a bit, I think the extra optional designs and colours etc that were added could have been set in such a way so that forge staffs still retained some kind of generic identity (like bodygears do)... Although there was one time I fought a wizard that had the exact same bodygear colours that an undead 'romero' wizard would have, leading me to believe that it had activated Romero at some point and was an undead wizard, when actually it was just a bit green.

When you're in a game (zoomed out view) it's really easy to tell which bodygear each wizard is wearing (no matter what colours or added extras they have), this is really useful to just be able to see at a glance.. however with staffs it is a little different, it's not always immediately obvious what staff types they all have, you can have staffs that take on the look of chaos staffs or attack staffs etc, when they are not... This isn't a big deal though, it's easy to click on them to view them in detail, I'm just saying if further cosmetic stuff is coming in, can it be achieved in such a way to keep staff types still recognisable at a glance, that would be good.

Cosmetic stuff is all nice extra stuff, for me the priority is still game balance stuff, in particular things like getting mana and mega-spells working perfectly in both modes without anything being slightly off in either mode (as well as stats, costs, cast %'s and alignment related stuff). I also think realms can still be overhauled into a really good SP, the basics are already in place.
Last edited by Mazy on Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by Tess » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:48 pm

yovargas wrote:
Julian Gollop wrote:[*]They are unique staffs with a unique mega-spell (which would be new spells). Otherwise they follow the same stat rules as other staffs.
As long as this unique mega isn't designed to necessarily be the best mega (and is available randomly in Classic), I would love this. I just don't want to ever feel like I have to grind for power to be on even footing on PvP.
Make all gear available from the start in PvP. Keep gear acquisition as a realms thing, you can do what you want with it then, and PvP is always fair.
Ick, no. If I couldn't use my realm gear in PvP, realms would no longer have a point for me and I'd stop playing them at all.
I'm confused. Your second statement seems to contradict the first. On the one hand you dont want to have to grind to be on an even footing, but on the other hand you dont see the point of realms if not for the grind for specific gear.

Wouldn't being given a full set of gear in PvP matches (from which you could choose your preference) solve both problems? You wouldn't have to grind, and you wouldn't have to play realms (which apparently you only use to get equipment anyway).

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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by yovargas » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:09 pm

Tess wrote:I'm confused. Your second statement seems to contradict the first. On the one hand you dont want to have to grind to be on an even footing, but on the other hand you dont see the point of realms if not for the grind for specific gear.

Wouldn't being given a full set of gear in PvP matches (from which you could choose your preference) solve both problems? You wouldn't have to grind, and you wouldn't have to play realms (which apparently you only use to get equipment anyway).
There's a difference between "I have to grind for gold in order to be competitive", which I don't want, and "It's fun to hunt for and collect items", which I do. :) I think it's the difference between pursuing a goal because you think it's a fun goal to pursue, and pursuing that goal because you have to to play the game properly. The former feels like "play", the latter feels like "work".
(Soooo many grindy RPGs are bad at knowing the difference. :roll: )

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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by MattyRasker » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:31 pm

I like the idea of having a range of rare Unique staffs, which have unique designs and mega spells, which can be won via winning competitions or spending lots of gold.

If that's where this idea is going, then yes, I like it.

Unique Mega Spells - are we talking perhaps a mega which perhaps casts a Divine Shield and Divine Sword i.e. the Armoury mega. or perhaps a Mega that casts a Chaos arm, 2 Goblins and a manticore perhaps. That kind of thing?

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Re: Epic Staffs - coming soon

Post by 9214 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:41 pm

Only unique visual design please, I don't like an idea of unique mega spells which no one can't use (except for gary who sits on a pile of gold and can buy those staffs. immidiately :) )

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