Gone longer tha I thought

Discussion about all things related to Chaos Reborn
Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:24 pm

  • I opened Chaos Reborn for the first time in longer than I thought and didn't recognise the game I backed.

    Health bars on creatures and the chance element removed. Shame.
    amigacooke
     
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Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:46 pm

  • Hi, a new game mode was implemented to make the game more accessible, 'Law mode'. It's an alternative way to play Chaos with hit-points and various other revised mechanics. You can switch it back to 'Chaos mode' in the options.

    Law mode seems a pretty popular mode, possibly due to it being made the default game mode now.. all new players are filtered in to law mode, as a consequence there are less negative reviews made by players not understanding the game.

    It is slightly problematic that law mode was made the default mode because very few of the core mechanics of the game of Chaos function very well under the law mode rules, plus I think implementing a whole other mode created a different set of problems for the game.

    The better designed mode, Chaos mode, was demoted to the secondary mode. However it is possible to switch chaos mode back on so that law mode isn't the default mode for the tutorial and SP/realms.. and you can switch all the multiplayer formats back over to chaos mode to (they will also be set to law mode as default to start with).
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    Mazy
     
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Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:18 am

  • I wonder how many backer open the game like this, see that the game has changed so drastically, and then disappear without posting about it on the forum so that other players can notify them that this is a change which is reversible.

    Mazy wrote:The better designed mode, Chaos mode, was demoted to the secondary mode. However it is possible to switch chaos mode back on so that law mode isn't the default mode for the tutorial and SP/realms.. and you can switch all the multiplayer formats back over to chaos mode to (they will also be set to law mode as default to start with).


    This should be something that is made really obvious to the player on login, and something that can be set globally; or better yet it should be the default mode for older players that are coming back to the game in the first place.
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:59 pm

  • I must admit, I've seen a lot of this since the change. It seems like many people see only one mode and not the other, and it doesn't appear to be obvious that there is a choice. I understand that Law mode was added in to appease those who can't understand probabilities, and it seems to have worked in that sense. There are now fewer negative reviews regarding the "unfair randomness" (but it that just down to fewer sales I wonder?).

    But as pointed out, I think a lot of backers, or people who are expecting to see what is Chaos mode, are missing it and just seeing Law mode. On top of that, the two modes basically divide the player base in two, which is only really acceptable if adding in the Law mode more than doubled the player base in the first place.
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    UnstableVoltage
     
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Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:24 pm

  • Good points regarding labeling of modes.. I still think that chaos mode is the mode that retains new players longer (and long term players) and therefore should probably still be recognized as the default mode.. Or at least give the modes parity by making it more of a clear choice from the very start (and at all times)..

    ..Other PC games which have multiple game modes sometimes indicate which mode (or level) on the list of options is the 'the way the game is intended to be played' (to prevent any initial confusion), they also indicate the purpose of the other modes (e.g, in the case of law mode it would be 'a chaos-lite experience with reduced RNG').

    The other thing which might need better labeling is AI interventions in the Duel format. I'm always seeing level ones go straight into Duel (law mode), very often trying to talk to the opponent not realizing it's an AI player..

    ..so their first impression of the game (if they haven't done the tutorial and SP first, like they should) is a MP opponent that doesn't respond to them, an AI, which has way more mana than them and gives them 90 seconds to take their turn.. potentially left baffled by whats going on.

    One way to label an AI opponent clearer could be to just put [AI] before their screen-name.
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    Mazy
     
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Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:29 am

  • Yes, I'm sure I mentioned this before, but there really, really should be a clearer opening screen that says "Welcome to Chaos Reborn. There are two different ways to play the game, and you can change freely between them. Law Mode does this, and it's good for this, and Chaos Mode does that, and it's good for that." I know you see something like this on the Tutorial screen, but not everyone goes there straight away. It's such a basic thing, but I've seen first-hand how confusing it can be for new players (my family) who have no idea there even is another mode. My sister, for example, was also disappointed that hit points had been introduced, but fortunately I was there to guide her to the true Chaos experience.
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    krayzkrok
     
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Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:48 am

Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:19 am

  • UnstableVoltage wrote:I must admit, I've seen a lot of this since the change. It seems like many people see only one mode and not the other, and it doesn't appear to be obvious that there is a choice. I understand that Law mode was added in to appease those who can't understand probabilities, and it seems to have worked in that sense. There are now fewer negative reviews regarding the "unfair randomness" (but it that just down to fewer sales I wonder?).

    But as pointed out, I think a lot of backers, or people who are expecting to see what is Chaos mode, are missing it and just seeing Law mode. On top of that, the two modes basically divide the player base in two, which is only really acceptable if adding in the Law mode more than doubled the player base in the first place.


    I hadn't played the game for a year now, and when I came back to it, a month ago, I was so disappointed by the change (health bars...) that I deleted it! Good thing I saw this post, now I know there is the chaos game mode :o
    Michi, alias Rhorg,

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    michigogo
     
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Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:22 pm

Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:58 pm

  • Regardless of how you feel towards Law Mode, it is clear it became the default mode which in turn left the game not really knowing what it is. I can fully understand why returning players/backers could be forgiven in thinking that the core game as they knew it was gone.

    But thats where we are and while we do have an update coming we have to be prepared for the status quo or only simple changes.

    Personally I would love to see just little things tweaked here and there but I have no idea what, if any, development time is going to be applied to this update, beyond the bug fixes and localization the CGR has already done.

    We can only hope that the price drop will bring in some new players and that PP gets funded. Any new players that do come in will be feeling that law mode is the default mode. Is law mode enough to keep those players around long enough that they also get to play the original game? I dont know, I just cant see the real lack of excitement and surprise being something that will hold players. While they might enjoy the game, will it excite and energise them enough to keep coming back? In my opinion, for little it is worth, law mode wont do that.

    In a game last night, in it orginal form, I had a rat survive an attack from a gobling, elephant and wizard. It then went on to kill the elephant, unmounting its rider and then a few turns later winning the game by killing the wizard...... for me that is the kind of chaotic goings on that make the game so great. But thats just me.
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    gary
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