Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
User avatar
goldendragon76
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:02 pm

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by goldendragon76 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:28 pm

Tess wrote:Personally I'm finding the AI uses too many illusions and not quite enough disbelieves

I think for the A.I to be successful it would need to be unpredictable with its disbelieves and illusions game by game.
If the amount of illusions/disbelieves it uses is set at any percentage it will become predictable no matter what that percentage figure is. It would play a better game if it disbelieved loads and used lots of illusions one game and then in the next game it trusted almost everything was real and used hardly any illusions. You would have no idea at the start of each game what percentage of illusions you would be facing and what you could get away with yourself. An ever-changing erratic opponent is very hard to play against and this is something that A.I can do a lot better than human players who become predictable whether they know it or not.

User avatar
Kahangriel
GOD
Posts: 1152
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:20 pm
Location: Kalaallit Nunaat

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by Kahangriel » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:15 pm

Tess wrote:My main complaints would be the tendency for the AI to treat vines and shadow woods as a threat, to the point of blobbing trees or magic bolting vines. I know the wavy branches are hypnotic but that's no reason that they should act as a magnet for 6 rats for half the game.


I've had shadow trees subverted by the AI in two games. :)
Who's that riding across the plain?
Who's lost count of the foes he's slain?
Who's the man who's plumb insane?
Kahangriel! Kahangriel! Kahangriel!

User avatar
Tess
GOD
Posts: 2217
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:23 pm
Location: Truro

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by Tess » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:39 pm

goldendragon76 wrote:An ever-changing erratic opponent is very hard to play against and this is something that A.I can do a lot better than human players who become predictable whether they know it or not.


It's possible the AI is random in its approach to illusions already and I just haven't played enough games to spot it yet.

User avatar
krayzkrok
Posts: 766
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:54 am
Location: Darwin, Australia

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by krayzkrok » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:16 pm

Eventually if possible I'd like to see AI personality traits, which are then chosen randomly. I imagine this is on the cards for Realms of Chaos anyway. So some wizards may prioritize illusions, some may be highly aggressive, some may turtle, some may become combat mages if they have a staff of weapons, that kind of thing. So you'd never be quite sure what kind of wizard personality you were facing to start with.

Even better, and I realise this is an ideal scenario, but I'd like to be able to set up hotseat matches against the AI and use sliders to influence AI character traits such as those above. I played a game recently where great customisation of enemy AI was possible, I forget which game it was, but more of this kind of thing.

I'd also like to see "Classic Chaos AI" which is basically completely nuts. ;)

User avatar
goldendragon76
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:02 pm

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by goldendragon76 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:42 pm

Just noticed that weapon buffs have been tweaked (for the better imo!).
It is now +4 for shield then +2 for subsequent casts and +8 for sword then +2 for subsequent casts.
The bow is still range 3, ranged attack 2 then +1 to ranged attack with subsequent casts (although it still says range in the text).

Perhaps burning all duplicate weapon spells will not always be the right move now.

User avatar
Grym
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by Grym » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:46 pm

Loving it already, my giant pack of mutant rats thoroughly defeated an eagle, then got swiftly mauled by looming trees. I knew there was something fishy about a purple tree.......lol
SteamID: Grymhowl Ingame username:Grymhowl

Seriously, you should nerf paper as it is completely OP. Scissors is fine the way it is.

Sincerely,
Rock

User avatar
goldendragon76
Posts: 441
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:02 pm

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by goldendragon76 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:47 pm

Been playing A.I games all night and have to say it does give you a decent game. 3 and 4 players games work better as it is very easy to beat on 2 player. Its main weakness is not using mounts although I did see it get on a mount once so it must know that this is possible. I also wonder how well it uses its mana if at all as this is something that you can not see. I only ask because I have not seen it use a mega spell once in any of the games even when I know it must have a load of mana as just killed another wizard with mana surge, etc.

User avatar
worto03
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:42 pm
Location: LE9, UK
Contact:

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by worto03 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:59 pm

goldendragon76 wrote:Been playing A.I games all night and have to say it does give you a decent game. 3 and 4 players games work better as it is very easy to beat on 2 player. Its main weakness is not using mounts although I did see it get on a mount once so it must know that this is possible. I also wonder how well it uses its mana if at all as this is something that you can not see. I only ask because I have not seen it use a mega spell once in any of the games even when I know it must have a load of mana as just killed another wizard with mana surge, etc.


I didn't think it was a decent game to be honest, I've only played one AI game, it was a 4 player, a mode I'm pretty bad at but with me against 3 AI, I won very easily without much of a plan just wandering round stomping them.

I think a tangle vine helped it seemed to confuse all of the creatures as they kept attacking it even though there were better things to go for.

I'm very happy hotseat is here so soon, I didn't expect it would be so early but I won't be playing the AI again until it's changed. The hotseat mode is going to be great to get the kids playing though and the AI will get better with each release I guess :)

User avatar
Obsilium
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:06 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by Obsilium » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:04 am

The AI doesn't really understand positional gameplay, preferring to attack willy-nilly and do things like move a skeleton into combat range of another skeleton when it is unnecessary or magic bolt a dwarf. If it it desired, I can try and put together some basic concepts which the AI could utilize. What I really want to see the AI do is use perfect micro with respect to probabilities, so that the good ideas can be emulated.
////// T S U R T //////
/// I ///////////// E ///
/// N //////////// W //
//// RECURRENCE //

User avatar
Gardafour
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:23 pm

Re: Chaos Reborn v0.23 - with single player mode

Post by Gardafour » Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:51 pm

I just tried out the single player mode. LOVE it. You guys are building a great game. Everything you do is really beyond reproach, and I'm very impressed. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt. If it helps the final dish, use a pinch, but too much salt can ruin it! You guys are the master chefs of game designers!

Suggestions/ ideas for Single Player mode:

  • Milk the Crushing Defeat!In a Hotseat game, the game should have a next player's turn button as normal even if the previous player was victorious. I don't like how the game ends on the other player's turn if they win because I come back to a victory screen but don't get to see the crushing defeat unless I use the re-wind tool. I'd like to click the my turn button and then feel my demoralizing defeat.

  • Promt for what units still have actions. When I end my turn and it asks me if I'm sure because some of my units still have actions left, I am often confused about what it is talking about. Perhaps a glowing ring or aura or something around units that have actions left? Maybe a green sparkly aura for creatures who can move, a red aura for creatures who can attack and maybe a purple aura for creatures who can do both? Just an idea.

  • Bloob covers all. I had a hard time telling which guys trapped in the gooey blob were mine. Maybe if the colored unit base rings were a little clearer under the blob?

  • Must kill Tangle Vines. The AI seems to REALLY hate tangle vines, attacking them when doing so doesn't seem to be the best choice.

  • Possible bug? When I was burning cards, the game kinda froze a bit after around the 4th card, not letting me burn it. It seemed like a bug and happened a few times.

  • Manually Rearrange Cards. I'd like to be able to drag my spell cards around and re-order them, either for something to do while I wait for the other player, or to organize them in ways I prefer (by law, chaos, and neutral for example).

Random unit ideas:

  • Teleport. Any thoughts about a teleport spell? Thinking it could move a single friendly unit/wizard anywhere on the map. If that is too powerful for a single spell, maybe one that allowed you to swap positions of one of your units with another friendly unit. This could maybe mess up things like trapping things behind a tangle vine, so I'd have it be a low % chance spell.

  • Flail Snail How about a creature that leaves a slime trail or some other sort of trail? As it moves, maybe 1 hex at a time, it leaves a trail of slime that slows creatures (forcing them to stop in the trail regardless of their speed). Trail could also be a wall-like thing like an acid trail that nobody can cross unless they first destroy it. Attack could be a flail-headed strike. http://www.thiel-a-vision.com/images/games/dnd/dndflailsnail.jpg

  • Bait? What if a wizard could plant a mana sprite to use as bait? I don't know if that would be useful or not, but it seems like an interesting strategy option to tempt an enemy to move someplace they normally wouldn't.

Locked