sugestions to improve playability

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:02 am

  • Hi! here an oldie playing ZX-spectrum chaos for more than 20 years (YS-tape).
    I always though about making the game more addictive .. so I think I could help.

    Sadly I was not able to test Chaos-reborn (what the hell is this unity3d web player?!?!?!.. where is the setup.exe!?!? cannot you provide it in a easy link?. Sorry I hate install 3rd part software to "play a game"....

    Anyway ... I was watching some youtube videos.. so here the points that are essential to me for improving playability.

    - Having a fast response control for the game increase playability. Keyboard shortcuts are a must and I would say no to mouse.
    In the ZX-Spectrum you could play really fast selecting, casting and moving creatures with keys rather than using mouse. (Several chaos clones using mouse failed cause it slowness).

    I know that game is designed for touch screens... probably this way of input will be better and proper... anyway a keyboard input way would me a good addiction to the computer version.

    - Speed: every time that I played ZX-spectrum versions over an emulator I increased the speed to skip the animations/sounds... as fast as possible. I wanted to select spell fast, cast it fast and do the movements fast. The animations before casting, the sounds before casting etc, only delayed the gameplay.
    This tip increase playability a lot. Try by yourself with spectrum chaos increasing emulation speed. When you are playing a strategy game.. you want to center into the board and skip distractions with GFX and visuals.

    - spells list. instead a spell list in the center of the screen.. why not an horizontal bar in the bottom of the screen with icons/tiles for each spell?. Each icon/tile could be present a color like in spectrum with chances of spell success.. The key shortcuts would be present in the icon/tile for keyboard users.. and also law/chaos symbols.

    - No board scrolling please!!!. IMO The game become more addictive if I see the full board instead to scroll it. Having an overall view you can think about strategy and forget to move/rotate camera. Personally I prefer "chaos" over "lord of chaos" (zx-spectrum games) just because the scroll thing.
    If you implement a zoom out or full board view you could use the tiles/icons for the spells selection that I suggested before.

    -Dont stop the fun when spells are empty!. I remember to hack the ZX spectrum to have magic wood always present into the spell list. In the middle game... the fun stops when you run out of spells. New ways to get new spells would be necessary. I dont know what would be the more balanced way.. but I think that its a must.

    Finally I dont know if Ill play someday this game since I dont have a powerful 3D videocard and low end computer.. your system requirements are really huge for a game were idea and game system is over the GFX/and rest of visuals that increases system resources.

    I hope to see implemented some of my suggestions for the pleasure of players because I love this game :)

    *any chance to create a 2D free and low resources version for the oldies?... A freeware version with cheap graphics that would show the basics to the newbies and show how addictive a chaos game can be. GFX/3D lovers would go for the full versions with better graphics when become addicted ;)
    kmuland
     
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:01 am


  • Howdy.

    I figured I would address a couple of your points.
    I am someone who never heard of chaos before this kickstarter, so I know nothing about the original.

    First off I believe there is a way to play without the web plugin. There are instructions and a download link here
    http://www.chaos-reborn.com/game-guide

    I wonder how many people share your opinion about a keyboard input option. I personally dislike the idea, it is much easier and quicker to use a mouse (for me).

    Speed - I actually think the current speed might be too fast. Because other players can take a variable amount of time I find myself glancing away from the screen. By the time I hear the spell casting sounds I end up missing the spell they cast. (I would love if there was a spells cast log displayed somewhere). This probably boils down to a matter of preference, so I can understand providing options for what features you want though.

    Spells List - I think the current system is implemented because you will have a deck/hand of spells. That means the spells will regularly change. Having a horizontal hand/deck type mechanic might be nice. Having color coding or symbols for law/chaos could be a nice addition. I do think a better interface for the spell list would be nice.

    Scrolling - I haven't played much with the camera options yet. I will say that adjusting the camera can help make it clear where the terrain is different levels. Having a "full map" option available through a simple button (like you request) might be a nice addition.

    Running out of spells - This one is a mixed bag for me. I have had a couple games where I ran out. Most games ended well before it was an issue though. It would be nice if we had a few more spells which didn't leave after use. I would love to have a "favorite creature" which we could summon as much as we wanted. I think always having disbelieve and one or two spells of your choice could be a good improvement. I don't know for sure until I see the final game though.

    Lastly - My personal laptop is 6+ years old and was low end for power when I bought it. It had ZERO difficulty with the beta. You probably won't have any problem playing, especially if you choose the low graphics options.
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    ledeir
     
    Posts: 13
    Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:03 pm
    Location: MA, USA

Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:04 pm

  • You don't like the Unity web player. I suppose you don't have Flash installed either? No youtube or tiny indie games for you right? :)
    On the contrary, I love the web based prototype. No need to mess with installs on every computer i touch.
    torp
     
    Posts: 85
    Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:44 pm


  • Here are my thoughts on your suggestions (I am also an original Chaos player!). I appreciate that you have only watched the game being played, as it might be a little different if you were to play it.

    1. I think the Unity 3D client is brilliant. You know exactly what it is and there is no bloatware that I am aware of.

    2. Keyboard controls are genuinely not really required for this version. You might feel that you were 1337 with the old QWEASDZXC configuration, but I can honestly say that the pace of the game would not really be helped with this feature.

    3. I think that the charm of Chaos has always been the quirkiness of the creatures, graphics and sound. I don't think that there is any distraction from gameplay at the moment; if anything having a creature suddenly appear in the space that you select would be a little weird.

    4. Displaying spells in a different way might be interesting, yes I agree. It's only a prototype of course, but the way they appear at the moment doesn't (somehow) capture the way that they were displayed on the original.

    5. I sort of agree with you on this, but at the same time the environment already looks so eerie / awesome that I think it actually adds to the game. You could always pan out if you wanted to and view the full board. What would actually be better (IMHO) is for the game not to centre on your wizard when it's your go. This is annoying because you have generally set up the view that you want and it also makes the touch screen version behave weirdly.

    6. You don't want spells to run out I agree, but with a 20 turn limit and 22 spells I dont think that you can run out.

    7. The Unity client really doesn't require a modern PC to play. Support goes back to Windows XP and I have changed the settings to 'fast' on my less powerful devices and it runs just fine.

    8. Ha ha - I like the free 2D version idea! That would be great.
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    wittzi
     
    Posts: 245
    Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:08 am


  • ledeir wrote:I would love if there was a spells cast log displayed somewhere)


    THIS! It can happen very quickly and it's frustrating if you dont see what was cast - even if it failed.
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    wittzi
     
    Posts: 245
    Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:08 am


  • Ive run out of spells twice out of about 10 games.
    The random spells which take away spells hurt. Especially since it always takes disbelieve from me!
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    ledeir
     
    Posts: 13
    Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:03 pm
    Location: MA, USA

Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:14 am

  • kmuland wrote:Hi! here an oldie playing ZX-spectrum chaos for more than 20 years (YS-tape).
    I always though about making the game more addictive .. so I think I could help.

    Sadly I was not able to test Chaos-reborn (what the hell is this unity3d web player?!?!?!.. where is the setup.exe!?!? cannot you provide it in a easy link?. Sorry I hate install 3rd part software to "play a game"....

    Anyway ... I was watching some youtube videos.. so here the points that are essential to me for improving playability.

    - Having a fast response control for the game increase playability. Keyboard shortcuts are a must and I would say no to mouse.
    In the ZX-Spectrum you could play really fast selecting, casting and moving creatures with keys rather than using mouse. (Several chaos clones using mouse failed cause it slowness).

    I know that game is designed for touch screens... probably this way of input will be better and proper... anyway a keyboard input way would me a good addiction to the computer version.

    - Speed: every time that I played ZX-spectrum versions over an emulator I increased the speed to skip the animations/sounds... as fast as possible. I wanted to select spell fast, cast it fast and do the movements fast. The animations before casting, the sounds before casting etc, only delayed the gameplay.
    This tip increase playability a lot. Try by yourself with spectrum chaos increasing emulation speed. When you are playing a strategy game.. you want to center into the board and skip distractions with GFX and visuals.

    - spells list. instead a spell list in the center of the screen.. why not an horizontal bar in the bottom of the screen with icons/tiles for each spell?. Each icon/tile could be present a color like in spectrum with chances of spell success.. The key shortcuts would be present in the icon/tile for keyboard users.. and also law/chaos symbols.

    - No board scrolling please!!!. IMO The game become more addictive if I see the full board instead to scroll it. Having an overall view you can think about strategy and forget to move/rotate camera. Personally I prefer "chaos" over "lord of chaos" (zx-spectrum games) just because the scroll thing.
    If you implement a zoom out or full board view you could use the tiles/icons for the spells selection that I suggested before.

    -Dont stop the fun when spells are empty!. I remember to hack the ZX spectrum to have magic wood always present into the spell list. In the middle game... the fun stops when you run out of spells. New ways to get new spells would be necessary. I dont know what would be the more balanced way.. but I think that its a must.

    Finally I dont know if Ill play someday this game since I dont have a powerful 3D videocard and low end computer.. your system requirements are really huge for a game were idea and game system is over the GFX/and rest of visuals that increases system resources.

    I hope to see implemented some of my suggestions for the pleasure of players because I love this game :)

    *any chance to create a 2D free and low resources version for the oldies?... A freeware version with cheap graphics that would show the basics to the newbies and show how addictive a chaos game can be. GFX/3D lovers would go for the full versions with better graphics when become addicted ;)



    Hey, old game player here

    - im sure these will be implemented, its only a prototype now

    - i like this idea, is a good suggestion to be able to choose to have a sidebar or a pop uo list.
    For the moment all you see is placeholder more or less, so im sure we'll see changes

    - i agree a view that could encompass the entire board with no scrolling would be a nice addition

    - if i remember well magic wood will be implemented, and the final list of spells will be 50+


    PS unity3d should be loading fine in your normal web browser (i use chrome), so no need to install anything for now
    wizard1
     
    Posts: 38
    Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:32 pm



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