4 mana for disbelieve is too much.

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.

  • SpiteAndMalice wrote:Just a point of note; if treated as an 8 mana swing (i.e. in a multiplayer match), that reality of an 8 mana swing applies in all game modes, not just Law mode.

    True. Except in Chaos Mode generally there is the opportunity cost of not getting to cast a spell. Failure of many other spells in Chaos Mode also nets 8 or more mana. There is no such lost opportunity cost in Law mode. In fact, in Law mode it's quite common that the only choice left to players is to Disbelieve or cast nothing because they have insufficient mana to cast what they have.
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  • If i remember right the mana for a failed disbelieve was one of those things that just happened when they introduced the mana for a failed spell as a way to mitigate the failure.

    In law mode spells dont fail to cast so i see no reason for the mechanic of mana for fails to be in law mode. Law mode is all about mana and there is no down side as it were to disbelieve in law mode. In fact is all positive. You cast it and it works, then great the creature goes and you cast again. You cast it and it fails then result as, as well as the 15 mana you got at the start of the turn, you just got another 4. So if you are working towards something that requires more many, then cast that sucker as its all good. For me it is one of these things that hasnt been considered when they worked to bring out law mode.
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  • NoWorries wrote:
    SpiteAndMalice wrote:Just a point of note; if treated as an 8 mana swing (i.e. in a multiplayer match), that reality of an 8 mana swing applies in all game modes, not just Law mode.

    True. Except in Chaos Mode generally there is the opportunity cost of not getting to cast a spell.



    in a game where your number of turns is greater than the number of spells in your hand you are at some point in the match only delaying the casting of a spell. You don't cast a spell on 'that' particular turn, but you do have the chance to cast the same spell on later turns, and the spell will potentially have a greater chance of casting on those later turns because you've been soaking up mana from disbelieves.

    Say you wish to cast a Spider, it's at a base chance is 60%, and you can also see that your opponents have 5 creatures left on the map which are potentially illusions. Well if you cast disbelieve, first (and before they do) then the following turn you can boost that spider to 64%, the turn after 68%, the turn after that 72%, then 76%, finally 80%. Delaying the spider cast in order to cast disbelieves first is being incentivised due to that 4 mana given to disbelieve.

    This is regardless of whether or not you actually remove an illusion from the map.

    And if an opponent decides that they're going to take the same strategy, what you've then got is a disbelieve race where the entire illusion and disbelieve mechanic is being sidelined.

    NoWorries wrote:Failure of many other spells in Chaos Mode also nets 8 or more mana.


    You're getting mana for spell failure with disbelieve. It's a 100% cast.
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