Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
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SpiteAndMalice
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Tue May 09, 2017 8:17 am

You often get a menu choice when starting to play a new game which asks you to select your default difficulty level:

Casual > Normal > Hard > Insane.

I wonder whether a similar option could be offered to new players here.

Chaos Mode > Law Mode

Along with an explaination text of what each mode involves. And then possibly a second selection:

Classic Rules > Equipped Rules
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Tue May 09, 2017 8:20 am

It's also worth mentioning that some game play modes still aren't available across the board; there's still no optiion to play classic realms or duels, therefore the chance to retain players who enjoy that way of playing is reduced from the get go.
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by MattyRasker » Tue May 09, 2017 10:54 am

I had no idea Chaos Mode was that deeply buried, to the point that new players aren't finding it.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by Stitchy » Thu May 11, 2017 3:21 am

i agree there should be a huge button at the start of the game saying LAW or CHAOS
i also agree law mode is rather poorly executed compared to similar games on the market, however i get comments from players that they actually enjoy law mode. so reports that nobody likes law mode seem misinformed to say the least.

that said i think
SpiteAndMalice wrote:I think in enabling Law Mode the devs listened to vocal minority of people who didn't gel with the Chaos Mode system, and overlooked the silent majority who were not complaining because they were largely happy with it.
is a somewhat unrealistic comment since I remember when law mode was implemented it was 3 ppl playing online peak hours (me being one of them). The silent majority had already left the game.

Some realism towards the commercial success of this game and less nostalgic hammering on the "lets not touch anything that is old school chaos" might have prevented law mode from being implemented in the first place.
Mazy wrote:I think we've already seen the effect of having too many modes, the player-base was already small, adding more modes late into development (based on a couple of negative steam reviews) only served to divide the player-base numerically and now ideologically
Sorry but we saw the effect of only chaos mode (barely any players) and law mode actually generated more traffic than chaos.

Besides this i think the singleplayer rpg experience is a much bigger factor in the success or failure of a game like this.
For this law mode made a big difference, there are even die hard chaos players who prefer law mode in realms to remove some of the grindy feel that chaos mode generates in playing vs AI. Again this is more a matter of (lack of) realm design than mode.
The economy and itemization in realms etc both are not a good reason to keep playing. Even now a majority of players i see online do not even play multiplayer, regardless of mode, and if they do they usually play coop/realms vs AI with a friend. You need a large casual base to support competitive gaming in any game. Casual chaos means singleplayer rpg for most people (ask them if you dont believe me). If it was my call i would invest heavily in this casual audience, not in us diehard pvp types who are the most vocal on this forum.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by gary » Thu May 11, 2017 6:21 am

This isnt about law vs chaos.

it is about 6000 keys going out to players who have invested in a game that is RNG based and them maybe giving this a go and finding only law mode on their first visit. It is about making a player very aware there are two modes to the game, one hit points, one rng and ease of access to these. Its about first impressions and converting some of those 6000 potential players in to regulars.

We all want the game to grow. This is highly likely the last and best chance to do that. The game cant afford to miss it.
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by NoWorries » Thu May 11, 2017 7:24 am

With 27+ days to go, there are about 8,000 backers. Each gets a key. (I.e., the minimum reward tier gets a Chaos Reborn key.) Given a likely late campaign surge, there is a good chance that there will be around 12,000 or more (likely more) keys distributed in June to new players. The only hold up might be to allow backers to select receipt of either a GOG or Steam key.
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by MattyRasker » Thu May 11, 2017 10:31 am

@stitchy I've got no problem with Law Mode, and I get people enjoy it, and that's great. I enjoy it to an extent. It offers a more casual experience for sure. To get two practically different games in one is good value for money.

But it's the expectation of what the game will be like vs first impressions. Those backing Phoenix Point are probably expecting an RNG based game. They will not see this, which seems a shame as to me, as someone who never heard of Chaos until 3 years ago, I see the heart of the game in it's original form, now known as Chaos Mode. I feel this is the mode Phoenix Point backers will be expecting. But as I said originally.....maybe I'm wrong :P

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by anjovi » Thu May 11, 2017 4:03 pm

The consensus so far seems to be that:

Chaos Mode is generally the more elegant and robust game system for PVP gameplay.
Law Mode is generally more casual and ideal for realms play as the mechanics for realms doesn't mesh as well with the chaos game system.

Though a little messy to have on a start of the game splash screen (or popup)

What if:
-----------
You had a splash screen pop up that stated.
"Chaos Reborn consists of 2 game systems that are interchangeable in the varying game modes. The differences are as follows:
and below (maybe with some cool art to catch the player's eyes. A paladin for law mode, hell hound for chaos...
-----------
-Chaos Mode-
"The spiel regarding the chaos mechanics that are already in the tutorial"
and an additional text....
"These are the mechanics of the original design, and are recommended for competitive players, in competitive game modes"
(Button to set as default)
----------
-Law Mode-
"The spiel regarding the law mechanics that are already in the tutorial
and an additional text....
"These are mechanics that have been introduced for more casual play, and are recommended for players new to chaos reborn as well as those who want a more lenient singleplayer realm experience"
(Button to set as default)
-----------
Disclaimer: Settings for either game system are prevalent in the menus of the different game modes. Have Fun!
(Button to set 'Do not show again' which you can tick)

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Stitchy
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by Stitchy » Thu May 11, 2017 4:23 pm

Stitchy wrote:i agree there should be a huge button at the start of the game saying LAW or CHAOS

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by SlipperyJim » Thu May 11, 2017 4:42 pm

A simple enough fix I would guess...

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