Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
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Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by MattyRasker » Mon May 08, 2017 3:57 pm

Alright dudes 8-)

Now, I've been refraining from posting in the forums with ideas for the game for a while, because I'm working on the assumption that Snaps want to wrap this one up with one last major update, and I can totally understand that. Maybe some bug fixes, but core mechanics I think will remain unchanged and I think we have more than enough modes to play with.

However... :D I feel this is probably an important thing to mention, maybe it's not. But anyway.

From what I've read from feedback, Law Mode is the first mode new players see, am I right? If so...

Phoenix Point funding campaign stops on the 8th June. Backers $30+ will get a copy of Chaos Reborn. Potentially, a few new players will fire up Chaos Reborn. These new players are more than likely expecting a RNG, risk management strategy game.

They load up the game and they are into Law Mode.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But when I read this and this, I'm envisaging a whole lot of new players coming from the Phoenix Point campaign, the types of players who are obviously comfortable with RNG, who may well love Chaos Mode, and seeing nothing but Law Mode.

Does the game tell them about Chaos Mode early on? Is it easy for new players to jump straight into Chaos Mode? Am I being over concerned?

Thanks for reading.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by ahMostyn » Mon May 08, 2017 5:30 pm

I think that you're absolutely right Matty, there have been a fair few forum questions from people asking where the RNG has gone, so I guess it's not entirely obvious that the mode can be changed. (Also agree with the intimation that the default mode should be chaos.)

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by ustolemytiger » Mon May 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Good post Matty, I notice that nearly all realms I invade are in law mode and usually new players.

Law mode is extremely unfriendly to new players,in Chaos mode you always have a chance to win no matter who you are playing, but in law mode there is quite a few scenarios where victory is practically impossible, facing undead builds especially megas, starting with less creatures etc.

I do not think there is an argument to whice mode is best, chaos mode IS Chaos, it is the game. Law mode is a good game but it is a pale comparison, like if you added hit points to chess pieces, it would be fun but its not the game that has lasted millenia.

I think players should be funnelled into chaos mode first and then if that is not for them law mode is there.

Even something as simple as putting chaos first (on the left) in all selections, apart from countries localisation where a language is read right to left.

I think that more players would stick to the game if they played chaos rather than law, the capricious nature of the game is what has kept me playing for 30 years over thousands of other games I have played.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by anjovi » Mon May 08, 2017 5:40 pm

I don't think that your being overconcerned. This is a fairly strange having such different game system tweaks in one package.
The fact that the game is 'chaos reborn' and is the more polished game in terms of general pvp play, i would definately try to champion it more as the game devs.

I like law mode in realms, as it gives me that sort of heroes of might and magic feel (without all of the micromanaging which i can't stand) Realms mode in general isn't very balanced though, so you can see why the 2 modes are pretty interchangeable here (i tend to prefer law because i have more control over keeping my mercs alive) but overall, i'd always prefer to play chaos mode.
I guess another aspect that gels with realm mode, is the way you can chain the little combos that wittle down the hp of different units is kind of neat.

Otherwise, I would tend to play chaos mode in general and would at least make the distinction of the 2 more prominent. Some sort of marketing like a splash screen when you start the game as opposed to being tucked into the tutorial mode, were it can be easily missed.

It's a tricky thing to tackle because of how different they are and how they are integrated. It gives the feeling of having 2 games stitched together, which is something that i can't imagine ever being fixed 100%

Still, both are quite enjoyable in their own ways.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by NoWorries » Mon May 08, 2017 6:38 pm

I've encountered players who have many hours into the game and still didn't realize that there was a Chaos mode and were about to quit the game because law mode wasn't cutting it for them, but chaos mode was the shizzit.

The "default" option for realms is buried too deep into the game settings cog. I agree wholeheartedly with the consensus of this thread so far since MattyR's first post.
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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by worto03 » Mon May 08, 2017 8:16 pm

me too, I've spoken to people in the client chat who were very confused by the whole thing, it's odd, it's two totally different games as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Mon May 08, 2017 8:49 pm

Completely agree on both counts. The level of information given to new players entering the game is poor, and the mode of play that they're filtered into is the wrong one.

I think in enabling Law Mode the devs listened to vocal minority of people who didn't gel with the Chaos Mode system, and overlooked the silent majority who were not complaining because they were largely happy with it.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by Mazy » Mon May 08, 2017 9:32 pm

I've been thinking about this to, first impressions are important, especially when you consider the level of impatience out there, first impressions could be make or break. The potential influx of hundreds of new players makes this point more important.

If I was a new player today I think my first impression would be confusion over the amount of modes and formats available.. I'm pretty sure I would never have got into this game as much as I did if my first experiences were with Duel mode and Law mode, both these formats showcase the game pretty poorly, for different reasons.

In general I have issues with games that cant decide what they are.. the thing that makes the game stick tends to get lost beneath a sea of alternative modes and options.. that can kind of work for SP titles sometimes, but with MP games the competitive side of it suffers massively if there are too many different ways of playing it.

I think we've already seen the effect of having too many modes, the player-base was already small, adding more modes late into development (based on a couple of negative steam reviews) only served to divide the player-base numerically and now ideologically.

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by ustolemytiger » Mon May 08, 2017 10:56 pm

I think Mazys calling for a Chexit:)

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Re: Law Mode as the first mode new players see

Post by gary » Tue May 09, 2017 6:21 am

This bludgeons the proverbial nail's crainium in to a flattened metal splodge.

This has been an issue for a good while now and it needs sorted.

I could write lots on this but wont but will add that the GUI doenst help ease the issue either.

I will however just say this.

There are 6000 keys going out, not all will bring new players in to limbo but for those that do arrive first impressions count and I implore those at Snapshot to take a long hard look at what they will see before they arrive and try to make it the best it can be.

For me if we can get a tenth of these potential new players in to the game and playing regualry then it would be a result.

Lets be honest here, this is possibly the last and best hope for Chaos Reborn to grow.

Please for the love of (insert your divine being of choice here), dont blow it.
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