agreeing to play ranked league live

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.

  • The simple fact that there is now a chat function within the game means that in essence every live league game is arranged as any player who seeks a live league game can have full visibility of who the potentially opponents are that they could match against.

    I'm sure with some experience of live league play that it becomes easy to dilute that pool of potential opponents further as regular league players will quickly come to learn which other players are also likely to be looking for a live league match and which have given up on trying/never bothered in the first place

    To that end, for the part of the player announcing that they are looking for a live league game they're actually opening up the pool of opponents that they might face as non regular league players might see the invite and decide to take part for a change.

    The person who is looking for that game also need not be the level 80 player, it could just as easily be a level 1 player who is trying to learn how to play. So what if they do? Should we all refuse to play against them? Should we come down heavy on them because they've overlooked some ethical norm of the sanctity of the league ladder?
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    SpiteAndMalice
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  • But people actually playing the game trumps the league system every time, we got a small player base, we need to be finding more ways for people to arrange matches, for sure we need better tools to allow people to arrange games 'it should be anonymous' but the reality is that it's not and in the meantime we should not censoring the few tools that people do have available to them.

    Overall I think announcing games that you are looking to play to other members of the community is a good thing. The matchmaker sits too far in the background, it should be easy for players to see potential matches that they can take part in, it should be visible as soon as they log onto the game. We need to find ways to get people playing and involved, chat is a good way to do this, it's social, it help people to feel that they're part of a community and imho it's what the game should be about.

    I can appreciate why the OP is saying that this is exploitable, and it probably is, but I think the big picture is that people can exploit the matchmaker easily should they so wish without using chat, and that chat is being more often used to arrange matches in the spirit of the game than as an abuse of it. If you lock the option down to arrange games via chat, I think it's therefore to the game's detriment as a whole.
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  • the point of the OP is that veterans should lead by example and not show the way to exploits
    queue silently or play friendly

    Im all for arranged live matches in a real league/cup system (not this monthly ladder which seems to be a confusing concept),but since we dont have that why pollute this ladder system with matches that are unbalancing the playing field? I dont get it.Why not play friendly instead, the choice is not: playing or not playing, the choice is: playing friendly or cheating. I have seen ppl do 10+ arranged matches an evening versus the same (lower level) opponents netting 300+ games a month (and topping the ranks with shitty rush builds). Please dont bring that back with this influx of new people.Its not that innocent, its detrimental.

    anyway my 2 cents on this
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  • Stitchy wrote:the point of the OP is that veterans should lead by example and not show the way to exploits
    queue silently or play friendly

    Im all for arranged live matches in a real league/cup system (not this monthly ladder which seems to be a confusing concept),but since we dont have that why pollute this ladder system with matches that are unbalancing the playing field? I dont get it.Why not play friendly instead, the choice is not: playing or not playing, the choice is: playing friendly or cheating. I have seen ppl do 10+ arranged matches an evening versus the same (lower level) opponents netting 300+ games a month (and topping the ranks with shitty rush builds). Please dont bring that back with this influx of new people.Its not that innocent, its detrimental.

    anyway my 2 cents on this



    It's a fair point to say that people shouldn't be playing repeat matches against the same ''easy'' opponent in order to promote their rankings. And newby bashing in general isn't good for the game whether that's via rematches or one off random matchups, you're still potentially putting that player off the game in the long run.

    But is this what you're trying to prevent, or do you want to see no league arranged via chat ever, because that's a totally different story.

    People may be using chat to arrange league games for a variety of reasons:

    What if it's the low level player who wants to have another go at a challenging opponent in order to find a way to beat them?

    What if it's two low level players who are excited about the game and just want to find someone to play?

    What if someone wants to arrange a live 4 way league match? Other than via chat, what's the alternative way to do this?

    What if someone doesn't have time to wait in the matchmaker and just wants a quick game?

    What if they're playing classic? (which takes cheesy rush builds out of the equation)

    If there's a problem with repeated rematches against the same opponent, then an ELO ranking that discounts matches against the same opponent after x number of matches, would resolve that issue, whilst allowing people who are genuinely just trying to arrange a one off match via chat to continue to do so.

    It also puts a hard solution in the game, rather than relying on an honour system that only needs one player to not agree to before it breaks down. That's better than saying nobody is ever allowed to use chat to arrange a league game.
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  • A better proposal to put to experienced player could be to say that if you spot someone trying to gank the system via repeated rematches, can we all argree to join the matchmaker and face the person doing that... In fact it's not a bad basis to form a guild around for those that wish to do so.

    The opposite; asking people to not arrange games via chat, would potentially only achieve drawing experienced players out of that process who aren't ganking the system to begin with. You'll be left in a position where anyone who is exploiting will continue to do so (because they'll more than likely ignore the the request to not do) and new players (who probably won't see this thread and have no reason to agree to not matchmake via chat). The tougher opposition that any exploiter might face, will no longer be in the pool of potential opponents.
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  • If it was a blanket offering of "Hey, anyone up for playing league games? If so, I'm waiting to play some", then I see absolutely no problem with that.

    If you know for sure that this particular veteran is inviting new players on purpose to get through the star system easier by playing easier opponents, then not only is that really weird but also worth raising the point directly with the player.
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  • Yeah, the very best thing we can do when we see people inviting others to play live League games is... for everyone to swarm the live League matchmaker. If everyone swarms the live League matchmaker when that happens, then it hardly matters what the motive of the person is who invited others. The matchmaker already has biases to match players of similar level or League rank. Basically, the more people in the matchmaker then the harder it is to be abused. :)
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  • firstly the word league is here confusing, it is not a league but a ladder
    this is kinda important to realize

    in a ladder you get matched with an opponent through a point system, the ones that are always near your rating skill
    in a league you play prefixed matches and meet all opponents which is by definition an arranged match system

    Now if it was up to me i would take live play out of the ladder, ideally i would make a separate ladder but currently that isnt realistic. You can burn me for saying this but i dont think async and live really mix. Because 1: u can play way more live games than async per month and 2:async can get easier 3and 4ways which score more rating points
    What i would do in a ideal world is make custom live tournaments (cups and leagues) with arranged matches and leave the ladder to async. This way both formats get the type of match play that suits them best.

    but obviously thats just dreaming atm

    Oh and of course u can spam chat about friendlies and play same guys in a friendly forever, this is not the issue!! Although some people seem to think playing a friendly and playing a ranked match is the same thing, but really it isnt.
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  • So, stichy. Are you saying that there is no situation where it is appropriate for a player who is online to (a) mention in public chat that they have been waiting for anyone, anyone whatsoever, to enter the League or (b) use public chat to encourage any or all players to enter the League matchmaker?

    To be clear, the only way to get League matches is through the League matchmaker. And if more then two players are in the matchmaker at the same time, then it is more likely to connect the players who will have the most competitive match.
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  • NoWorries wrote:So, stichy. Are you saying that there is no situation where it is appropriate for a player who is online to (a) mention in public chat that they have been waiting for anyone, anyone whatsoever, to enter the League or (b) use public chat to encourage any or all players to enter the League matchmaker?

    To be clear, the only way to get League matches is through the League matchmaker. And if more then two players are in the matchmaker at the same time, then it is more likely to connect the players who will have the most competitive match.



    Yes i am saying that (A) because it is not a league but a ladder, if it was a league you and me would be scheduled to have a game. Second point is : you seem to treat it as friendly play, it is not.It is ranked play. Anyone can play friendly, in ranked however there is some eligibility (a level 80 doesnt play a level 1 ok this is messed up because of player numbers but the principle still holds).
    Thirdly having live play mix up with async is problematic as i have shown . And the fourth point is that it is impossible to prevent live play exploiting the ladder unless u have hundreds of people queuing live play 24/7 like u argue as a solution yourself. Fifth would be that live play is much more suited for arranged types of matchplay like cups and (real) leagues which are arranged by definition and live play requires arranging since both (or all players) need to be present at a certain time.

    Thus im against live play in the current monthly ladder, however im willing to compromise since there are no alternatives by allowing people to queue if they do it silently. Yes this is impossible to enforce but what can we do, other than to stick to principles.

    In theory i can imagine a purely live ranked ladder, but it would be one where the game sends 2 players a message that it is time for them to play each other (warranted by their place on the ladder) and that they then arrange a time to play their game or something like that. But a ladder can never be me shouting at a bunch of players and say: "hey guys who wants to give me some points for me to rank" You get a situation where some player tops the ranks and he did not play against anyone of the top 10, who were battling each other in async all month, this is just silly.
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