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Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:41 pm
by gary
I have been going on about how bust realm scoring is for so long now I have bored myself listening to me.

Law mode does make a mockery or not only realm score but realm level

The other thing that does is getting more points for when there is an invader. Invaders are a random factor that should not contribute to the score. Firstly there is the whole you are getting rewarded twice, both with score and with karma, it should just be the karma boost. Secondly you can get a lot of invaders quitting and of course, it can be abused by the invader joining and resigning. And there is also how a player can not only merc up but also start the fight with village support so the invader is so out numbered that they stand no chance of winning.

OK i am boring myself again so yeah, realm score..... needs fixing

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:22 pm
by SpiteAndMalice
Personally I don't overly care about realm scores one way or another - For the simple reason that I don't 'buy in' to the idea that a realm should be completed quickly rather than explored.

But for yourself and any other players that do care about them I do totally feel your frustration with the situation of Law Mode scores being pooled in with Chaos Mode. Unfortunately I think this kind of thing and the feeling that it can generate amongst a player base is something that snapshot tend to either underestimate, or maybe just miss completely.

With hindsight It's obvious that introducing a second game mode that plays differently to the first requires a second scoring table, but hey that's why hindsight is such a wonderful thing and in any development process, with the hurry to introduce new features, things get missed. But when players are seeing the problem and feeding it back, only to then be hit with a wall of silence, and the situation gets left like that for months on end, it's things like this that cause people to leave the game.

The frustration for me is that within its core mechanics Chaos is such a great game, but there's little areas in the systems that surround the core game which just jar in contrast by how badly they've been done sometimes, little things which quite often it feels like there's a very easy and simple fix for (I'm looking at you reduced size duel maps and loss of randomised player starting order) but communication with the playerbase, is at times, possibly the weakest of them.

EDIT - It's well worth saying that the exception here imho is Rafi, who goes out of his way to help in the areas where he is able to make changes. Even just hearing that a bug has been spotted and is 'on the list' can mean a big deal to whoever has reported it.

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:33 pm
by Mazy
Law mode scores and chaos mode scores are still being mixed together on realm leaderboards. The issues with giving both modes parity have already been stated throughout this thread.

The issue isn't the scores themselves, the actual scores are irrelevant, the issue is hard difficulty realms can be made 'easy/easier' by running them in law mode. This makes realm level irrelevant.

It makes the achievement of completing them 'the normal way' (or 'the hard way') pointless if there's no differentiating between which mode was used to complete the realm. There is no longer any prestige in beating a hard realm (or incentive to re-run it) if running it on easy is deemed the same as running it on hard..

..in other words the leaderboard doesn't tell you whether you reached the realm completion benchmark on 'easy' or 'hard'.

If it's too late, or problematic, to separate the scores based on which mode/method was used.. perhaps the best solution would be to keep the mixed score-table but add the most important info, which is missing, in brackets e.g,
#1 wizard one 1000 pts (law)
#2 wizard two 950 pts (chaos)
#3 wizard three 900 pts (law)
#4 wizard one 850 pts (chaos)
(note that 'wizard one' ran the realm in both modes and posted two high scores)

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:49 pm
by anjovi
Very good idea! Although, it might be hard to implement if the game mode they beat the realm in was not recorded before this hypothetical update.

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:41 am
by Glas Masv
Law Mode tainting the realm scores is a good reason to wipe scores and start fresh with a new scoring system. We already have lord/king completion. More completion objectives like 85% of territory revealed, points per opened chest, points per rumor location revealed. The limit on content completion is doing it all before time runs out. The scoring system as it is now is challenging, but encourages skipping quests purely because the quests don't accrue points. Making chests accrue points would make them relevant even when players are flush with gold. Law Mode should have its own column for scoring.

If realm scoring is adjusted maybe an asterisk should be next to pre-adjustment scores.

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:01 pm
by gary
law mode is not the only thing to taint realm scores.

Also remember you can switch mode mid realm as much as you want so unless that is also stopped then makring things 'law' or 'chaos' its a mute point unless there is a 'mixed'

Invader points also taint the scoring.

Turning on invaders is a personal choice, also the amount of invasers you get is completely random.

You get 10 karma for beating an invader, you do not need a second reward of more points.

Short version is, as I am boring myself again, realm scores need scrapped or fixed, the status quo is horrid.

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:43 pm
by Glas Masv
ah yeah, true

Re: Law Mode killed Realm Stats

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:46 pm
by anjovi
My input probably won't sound that different from what i've posted before, but incorporating some new ideas, this is what I'd picture:

Realms scoring system Overall:
-Wiped when fixed
-Separate Chaos/Law high scores
-De-activate score when you switch game modes

Score mechanics:
-Remove invader bonus points

"+" Points for:
-Found treasure chests (thematically it's cool to, finding loot is probably a reason why wizards go to these realms)
-Villages recruited (without being razed)
-Resources obtained by end:
a)Gold
b)Kudos (this would be slightly nerfed in comparison to villages to reward you for recruiting villages)
c)Reputation (To be implemented along side pts for killing lords, as you can gain these in encounters)
-Encounter reward: Points, so you can reward folks for completing your side quests.
-Banishing Spell progress (i'd probably omit days in the stead of this to make things more interesting)

"-" Points for:
-Villagers lost in battle (to encourage better tactics with villagers, instead of just dragging them across the map to flood everything without consequence)
-Mercs lost in battle (Though no penalty for dismissing them)

I could see a cool dynamic with villagers/mercs being tied to kudos/reputation being lost, which would be cool as you could just associate these with reputation/kudos when considering highscores. Although, this might mess up realms that people have already made, that depend too much on kudos/reputation so that one is more up in the air.

Overall, I think the biggest problem with realms is that nothing in them is really consequential apart from the obvious winning/losing of battles, having your path opened and closed, and the days spent running through a realm. I feel if you were able to add consequence to the other elements of the game (villages, kudos, mercs, chests, etc.) You'd honestly have enough to warrant caring about each move you make, which would make realms alot more exciting then they currently are.

I think a revamped highscore system would work as it'd still allow for new players to get cozy with the game, while the invested players could take on the optional challenge to get a highscore. This system fix alone could very well fix the problems with realms overall. It's not that it doesn't have enough features (which is actually quite cool imo) but that theirs literally no consequence to things such as villages or kudos or reputation or anything else you find, other than the fact that they make battles easier...in which case you might as well just call for an ally.

Plus something like incorporating villages recruited in the score would make use of something that's generally just seen as useless art pallette piece (especially villages that aren't in range of anything) if you associated the highscore to them, you'd immediately make them interesting variables to consider in your strategy.

Taking emphasis off of days, and giving players the leeway to influence their score with all of these variables could work great, as it'd be more situational, what variables are more important based on the layout of the realm. Sometimes it might make sense to recruit all the villages you can find, sometimes it might make more sense to complete the side quest, sometimes you might find it more sensible to skip the sidequest and instead take the shortcut, etc. In ways, it'd make figuring out each realm a bit of an exploration and more of a puzzle then just revealing fog over tiles between wizard A and B, B to C, C to D and so on.