magic trees need a nerf

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
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Stitchy
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magic trees need a nerf

Post by Stitchy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:53 am

they

are too cheap
are too tough
block paths
give too much magic buff
give card draw (or card generation rather since they do not come from your deck?)
protect against attacks
counter blobs
dominate every game atm

seems to me all this is a bit much for 1 card

not sure how to nerf them but atm everyone is using aelfscyne and its boring
and its not the talisman that is the problem; its the trees and its mega

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RafiRomero
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by RafiRomero » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:09 am

Hi.

They do give a card generation, not a draw.
What game-modes are you seeing everyone using aelfscyne in? I'll have a look.

I saw someone using Garivano the other day, felt a bit of a glow:)
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SpiteAndMalice
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:26 am

I'd love to see Magic Trees changed so that any wizard could enter them - Not just the individual/team which has cast them.

(To me in Chaos Mode they don't feel overpowered - Maybe it's aelfscyne that's the problem)
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Stitchy
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by Stitchy » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:04 pm

all modes but obviously equipped modes are the most problematic

The tree is too strong literally in defense but also the things i said in first post, a card generating fortress
Im not sure what to change but at first glance i would say casting % and maybe more vulnerable to spells like meteor (less defense or mp)

i always thought it was strong but atm it seems the card to go in the league
last month i had games where 3ppl had trees with aelfscyne (me included) and then u really see that it is too strong, u get ridiculous games; trees too hard to take down, give too much protection with the magic buff, 5 easy powerful 6 range units and they counter a whole lot of things, like bolts, blobs and other growths etc. It is not aelfscyne it is the trees themselves.
For me it means that i can only do 1 or 2 viable builds and the rest of my configs are basically useless. Which is always a sign of things being too strong: the game becomes 1dimensional
SpiteAndMalice wrote:I'd love to see Magic Trees changed so that any wizard could enter them - Not just the individual/team which has cast them.
that might help but still id like the trees to be weaker
they should not function as a defensive structure that is what vines and shadow trees do, it is a support structure not a fort.If u want it to be a fort it should not do all the other things (card draw ,prevent trees next to it etc)

anyway i dont what to do i am a player not a developer

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RafiRomero
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by RafiRomero » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:39 am

Hi,

I was playing quite a lot of equipped 1v1 ranked asynch in December, I don't think I saw a tree bind or aelfscyne at all (I think I might have a tree bind actually, but mostly to ameliorate my small deck).
Or is this more a thing in live play?
If someone wants to demonstrate the problem to me by playing me, or give me a specific game-mode to "fish" for the problem, I'd love to have a look.
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MattyRasker
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by MattyRasker » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:33 am

SpiteAndMalice wrote:I'd love to see Magic Trees changed so that any wizard could enter them - Not just the individual/team which has cast them.
This too is the only change I'd like to see.

Aside from that, I think Magic Trees are fine as they are and have always been. If anything, the only use the mega has is if you are using Aelfscyne, and that itself is an expensive talisman. Whats the % chance of an elf spawning? 16% isn't it?

If you don't have Aelfscyne or Garivano equipped, I find it a tremendously useless mega as there is no way you burn through 10 trees in one game, if of course your opponent hasn't destroyed them all and farmed tonnes of Mana for themselves.

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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by worto03 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:13 pm

Agreed it would be good for any wizard to be able to enter them.

Aside from that I think they are fine as they are as well, in a lot of situations I love it when my oppo casts magic wood, I get a boat load of mana from it as with the very small 1v1 maps these days it's hard to cast them far enough away from any ranged units not to pick them off or with my current build I tend to have a bunch of Pegi's and a magic sword so just wade in there and hack them down for double wizard mana :D

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Stitchy
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by Stitchy » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:17 pm

it is mainly 3+ ranked league
and if u all think its fine, ok i suppose im wrong then (or maybe it will take some time for you to see my point)

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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:37 pm

I think it's situational - I play a lot of 5/6 player games (not recently - curse you work) and I think I'd agree with the guys above in that when you cast trees in those formats you're just lighting a beacon above your head which says come over here and farm me for mana!

Maybe in duels it's different, I can see them being an effective counter to rush tactics, and I've used them well against the AI in the past when it couldn't figure out how to prioritise them in comparison to other targets.

But in the larger a format games you have to be very very careful about how and where you cast them, get it wrong and there a downright liability.

For team matches I certainly learnt the hard way that they're not a good cast in the early turns of a 2v2v2, on the other hand I think they are a good cast in a 3v3, especially if you're the player sitting at the back.

But again - If people are using them as a means to get elves out all across the map, then I'd say it's that talisman which is too strong, not the trees themselves. Or put it this way, if you had a shadow wood turning into elves, and magic trees turning into goblins, would you still have as many people combining the two binds? My bet would be that they'd start to combo shadow wood with the elves and the magic trees would get ditched.
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Stitchy
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Re: magic trees need a nerf

Post by Stitchy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:11 am

sorry but this "if someone cast trees i will just farm the mana " isnt very convincing
first of all the trees have 50 defense which is not something u slap around easily
secondly with 140mp they are rather resilient to magic attacks and they buff anyone around with +30mp as well (which is even stronger in classic).
So yes lets farm trees but lower defense in that case because at the moment you need like 70+ attack to slay them reliably.
and if they are defended (by elves or dragons).. well you need an army of undead (against the law alignment?) to get close and those are rather bad vs trees. And do not forget you to do all this just against 1 card (which is 5 trees), which can be easily cast at turn 1.

on top of this:
-the trees offer a shield to anyone who is in them
-they give cards
-they can not be blobbed
-they deny a zone where no other (shadow) trees can be put
-they can block or make choke points
-they provide a travel network
-they can be turned into elves/blobs
-high end card for an entry level card cost (70%)

not one of the possibilities as a standalone is overpowered (including the elves), but the combination makes it rather ridiculous.

Now in classic u might think it is not much of a problem, just because the deck generation might not make it as common
But the fact that you dont notice it does not make it less overpowered.Imagine every player casting trees, which was last months trend, the game becomes a boring grind/stalemate and the map denied of all other growths or blobs etc, all the mana farmed only gets more trees on all sides. The elves are not the problem. It is just too easy to just say its just a problem of equipped/talismans because it isnt. And no: shadow wood would not even come close, not even if they would turn into elves.

For me it is obvious that they are too strong, but that might be just me.

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