I <3 Bolt Towers

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:27 pm

  • Obviously not OP, but are they any good? (I mean conceptually). Were they a good addition to the game? did they merit their place within the game after their initial trial period? ..Or, Is it fair to say that if we were to compile a list of our least favorite spells, bolt towers would be first on the list?

    Obviously it would be a very short list because a vast majority of the spells in the game are really nice, useful and interesting spells (tactically). It goes without saying that not every spell can be epic, there will always be one or two that just don't quite cut it.. Is it time to place a hand on the shoulder of Mr. Bolt Tower and say 'you had a good run kid'.

    It's very hard to argue a good case for the presence of bolt towers in the game (it's even harder to justify the presence of two different types of towers in the game). They have been in the game long enough for us to fully assess its strengths and weaknesses, and you have to say its weaknesses are many and its strengths are few..

    ..On reflection it's just not a very well designed spell idea. I'm not sure the concept of it even works in theory, yet alone in practice. They still feel out of place within the game (apart from SP maybe.. although in truth they are still pretty bad even in the actual 'tower defence realms', versus multiple mercs).

    There are a handful of non-creature spells that are fairly useful in SP but not great in MP.. e.g, Tower spells (icarus + bolt) and to some extent meteor & paralyze. I can just about justify the additions of things like meteor and paralyse, they did add something, albeit something very minor..

    ..However, they do push far more valuable non-creature cards out the deck (weapons/magic attacks/blob etc), the non-creature card to creature card ratio is off. Perversely, adding more non-creature spells actually created less options within decks rather than more (mostly due to the quality of the non-creature spells that were added).

    I don't think either of the tower spells would be missed if they were removed, in fact general gameplay might even improve without them (removing them would address the non-creature spell to creature spell ratio a bit). If you use a 20 deck size and you generally draw one or two towers a game you're virtually operating with an 18-19 deck size.

    Obviously at this late stage it's extremely unlikely that spells would get cut from the game. But if there was a spell that did turn out to be fairly unpopular or deemed a useless/problematic addition to the game maybe there's a way of just decreasing its impact/prevalence (without removal)..

    ..It could perhaps be given a new role, unique to the SP (you could make both types of towers 'realm specific spells') ..or, perhaps just tune it down so it was as rare as blob.
    Last edited by Mazy on Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    Mazy
     
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Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:06 pm

  • I love paralyse, and I like Icarus Tower, although the latter is a bit situational.
    I can't decide on meteor shower: I'm utterly rubbish at using it, so I almost always burn it:)
    Weirdly I feel like I almost never get bolt tower. Perhaps because I mostly play equipped?
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    RafiRomero
     
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:16 am

  • I like it, think it works well enough. I cast it a good bit even as a to fail spell is quite nice when it works. Also an undead counter, good v zombies and holds HH back a bit.

    We need moar spells! Dont take my spells away Prof. Mazy!

    I also like bad spells,having a mixed bag,ten thousand spoons when all you need is a magic knife, its making something happen with nothing that is awesome bout the Chaos!!!
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    ustolemytiger
     
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:22 am

  • ustolemytiger wrote:Dont take my spells away Prof. Mazy!

    ok dude, sorry 8-)

    I'm reformed

    I <3 towers
    Last edited by Mazy on Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:07 am

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:28 am

  • I like using Bolt Towers as an early game defence mechanism, certainly to defend Mana Sprites. And on these new ridiculously small 2 player maps they cover a good range.

    I just find mine rarely kill anything, and go down quite easily because of the inability to hit creatures or wizards sat next to them.

    So Id say, they act as a good deterrent.
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    MattyRasker
     
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:33 pm

  • All is forgiven Mazy!

    Yes as the maps get smaller and smaller these area defence weapons become more powerfuler
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    ustolemytiger
     
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:05 pm

  • "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a magic knife" <3 :D
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    RafiRomero
     
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:35 pm

  • The towers are pretty situational - In some games, with the right positioning, they're almost game-breakingly strong as a means of entrenching behind a set position. In other games, with a number of movement range 3 creatures already on the map you might as well just burn them because you're gifting your opponent mana if you bring one out.

    I don't think that towers are OP per say, but they can make for some really boring games in certain situations. The worst aspect of them is in 3v3 team games where both teams set a number of towers on the map in the early turns and then neither side wants to push an attack.

    Maybe they should exist like Magic Trees and only be on the map for a limited number of turns before they decay (you could increase the casting chance for balance), you'd then be asking the player to make more of a conscious tactical choice over how and when to use them.
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    SpiteAndMalice
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:21 pm

  • MattyRasker wrote:I just find mine rarely kill anything, and go down quite easily because of the inability to hit creatures or wizards sat next to them.

    So Id say, they act as a good deterrent.

    True, range 3+ creatures avoid its firing range easily, they get adjacent and keep hitting it till it falls (without the tower ever firing). The tower is able to get one shot off against a range 2 creature before it closes the gap. It works a bit like single use trap in law mode because it trades guaranteed damage with the thing that is going to kill it (it gives them a zap before it dies).

    The absolute best use for bolt towers is placing them on height 2 terrain with as much 360 degree LoS as possible. On some maps there are things which I call 'outcrops' (you know the single height 2 hex's surrounded by height 0 terrain which only flyers can get to.. eagles etc).

    ..This works great for any structure (totems and FoL's to), when a structure is cast on an outcrop they are invulnerable to any land attacks and air attacks, it is only weak to ranged attacks and meteor. Creatures can still avoid a tower perched on an outcrop by going adjacent to it but they cannot attack it, it's the only time a bolt tower is semi-effective.

    There is also a strange anomaly with bolt towers which makes belivent wizards immune to them. Usually wizards armed with Belivent can only dodge/evade ranged attacks such as arrows, rocks, fire.. they cannot evade magic based attacks like bolt and paralyse BUT they can evade bolts from bolt towers. It was possibly an oversight but the inconsistent/confusing rule was kept in.

    For me, Bolt towers just feel like a 'fake' undead counter, yes it can kill undead therefore yes it is an additional undead counter in the deck but I think of it this way..

    ..without the possibility of drawing a bolt tower there was an increased opportunity of drawing a genuinely good undead counter in it's place.. e.g, a magical weapon, a magical based attack (MA, subversion), a HH (any kind of undead creature), a mount to carry a mobile undead slayer to its target.. I just preferred drawing these kind of anti-undead cards, they allowed us to effectively and proactively deal with undead.. drawing these kind of counters didn't feel like a curse.
    Last edited by Mazy on Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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