Favourite Feature

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.
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RafiRomero
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by RafiRomero » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:09 am

NoWorries wrote:I used to say, frequently, that wizards are like glass cannons. I.e., wizards are powerful yet remain fragile. Now, this is not as true. With the push to give wizards a "heroic" option, wizards are increasingly more durable... but wizards do not obtain a comparable weakness or vulnerability as a price for this increased durability.

That's how I like to play too: I am fine with a weak-defense wizard summoning a shield, and mounts are great, but I feel like once I've dismounted and isolated the wizard, I should have a decent chance of killing him. I am ok with Heroic wizard, and the magic-robes wizard is great now, but I've never liked the wizard with a ton of defense: once he casts shield he's a tank, very difficult to kill.b
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gary
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by gary » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:13 pm

new green goblin in the house?
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DigitalDuck
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by DigitalDuck » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:13 pm

NoWorries wrote:CHESS:
  • Action options get simpler each turn as the number of creatures in the arena never increases.


Not strictly true - I think the number of average potential moves hits a peak around move 12-ish, if I recall correctly. But generally speaking, yes.

My reason for supporting a modified turn timer (specifically one which increases with actions performed) is not to force players to play quickly (in fact, the more options available to a player, the more time they would have to move, generally meaning players have more time to move than usual), but to prevent them from deliberately wasting other players' time.

I agree that speeding up the game for most players requires limiting the number of possible actions a player can perform rather than forcing them to make decisions faster. And certainly, increasing kill % chance would speed the game up considerably. Even if it's just for creatures, fewer creatures on the board = fewer actions to consider.

Wizards being glass cannons makes sense when comparing them to the King in chess (in fact, in the original Chaos they moved exactly like Kings...). It should mean a serious rethink if anyone can even get an attack on the Wizard; even the rat should have a decent chance at killing Wizards.
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SpiteAndMalice
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:08 pm

DigitalDuck wrote:My reason for supporting a modified turn timer (specifically one which increases with actions performed) is not to force players to play quickly (in fact, the more options available to a player, the more time they would have to move, generally meaning players have more time to move than usual), but to prevent them from deliberately wasting other players' time.


You could still deliberately waste time using a chess style timer (if you were so inclined), just because you as a player move quickly through your opening turns doesn't mean that your opponent would do the same. 20 minutes of total turn time is still 20 minutes of total turn time no matter which way you split it up.

If anything, I could see games taking longer with a chess style timer as early rounds would allow you to bank your time then you'd be making use of more than the average turn time for later rounds. Whereas as the game stands you can still end those early rounds in 15-20 seconds but the time doesn't get banks.

Has anyone come across an opponent who is deliberately wasting time btw?
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:18 pm

2 things to consider with any type of variable timer:

Firstly, the timer is currently shown as a bar which reduces as your time runs out, that would need to be changed to a numerical timer (easily done).

Secondly, what happens when a 3 (or more) player game is going on and 1 player decides to turtle? As is, that player sits back and hopes that their opponents will weaken each other before they then go in to attack the survivor. But with a variable turn timer, that person who has turtled has also presumably been able to take quicker turns whilst they've sat back meaning that when it comes to final battle between them and the remaining wizard they've also now got more time available to them. Does having a variable turn timer in place give incentive to not make any moves when it's your turn?

I'm not saying that it would necessarily go that way, but certainly (as with all changes) there will be side effects with regards to how people choose to play.
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by DigitalDuck » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:27 pm

SpiteAndMalice wrote:You could still deliberately waste time using a chess style timer (if you were so inclined), just because you as a player move quickly through your opening turns doesn't mean that your opponent would do the same. 20 minutes of total turn time is still 20 minutes of total turn time no matter which way you split it up.

If anything, I could see games taking longer with a chess style timer as early rounds would allow you to bank your time then you'd be making use of more than the average turn time for later rounds. Whereas as the game stands you can still end those early rounds in 15-20 seconds but the time doesn't get banks.


I know. That's why I don't want a chess-style timer.

SpiteAndMalice wrote:Has anyone come across an opponent who is deliberately wasting time btw?


Yes.
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Tess
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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by Tess » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:10 pm

Maybe people who use less time should get more mana each turn? :D :D

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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by goldendragon76 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:52 pm

NoWorries wrote:The weakness of a game clock, without modification, is the people who lose their connection or otherwise don't move at all because real life intervenes. We need manageable turn limits so that the game still moves forward.

This is a fair point, if your opponent went missing you would not want to wait around for 15 minutes to register your victory and if it was a 4 player game the whole game would probably have to be abandoned as if they lost 1 player it would be unlikely that all of the remaining 3 would be willing to wait 15 minutes to resume play. I think if a game clock is used there would have to be something in place where if a player does not move a single creature within 3 minutes an 'are you still there?' box appeared and then if the player didn't respond to this within 1 minute then their wizard dies. Having to wait a total of 4 minutes for missing players to be booted out of the game would be acceptable.

Ped209 wrote:The question remains with the chess timer "what happens when you run out of time?" there are 2 ways I can see of dealing with this.

1. You Die.
2. a minimum amount of time is allocated to each turn

I would go with option 1, this is how it works in chess and it should be the same for Chaos Reborn. If a player manages their time poorly then their punishment should be death.


On the subject of chess did you know that there are more possible chess positions than atoms in the observable universe. I always found this to be a fascinating fact, especially when you consider that there are around 20 000 000 000 000 000 000 atoms in a grain of sand!

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Re: Favourite Feature

Post by RafiRomero » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:17 pm

Tess wrote:Maybe people who use less time should get more mana each turn? :D :D

I think it would actually be pretty cool to have a small reward for playing quickly (I play slow).
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