Ideas to improve the Law/Chaos balance

Discussion and questions about the latest version of Chaos Reborn. Not for bugs, but for comments about the game play.

  • I am enjoying the new features of Chaos Reborn such as the staffs and mana but I feel the importance of these has pushed the law/chaos balance to the back burner. I don't know about other people but I often neglect to check my law and chaos figures altogether.
    At the start of the game I usually check my opponents staff and robe first, if they have a megabolt staff know to keep distance, if staff of a certain type of creature then know you are likely to be facing a lot of these creatures and they are less likely to be illusions. I would then check my own wizard to see what robe I am wearing and consider how this will make me weak or strong in certain situations then take note of my staff and ask myself if the mega spell is one worth saving mana for or if boosting spell chances would be better. After deciding on my overall approach to the battle I would then go onto checking my initial spells and decide what to keep and what to burn and then what to start the game with.

    All of the above seems so much more important than the law/chaos balance and this is why I often overlook it. The balance does have a dramatic effect on the game making all spells of an alignment easier to cast for all wizards and I loved how it worked in Chaos so I have thought of some ideas to make it a more used feature in Chaos Reborn.

    1. Improve how your composition of law/chaos spells are shown
    It has already been pointed out elsewhere that these figures are confusing. Perhaps they would be better shown just by an image of something like a wizard coloured deep red for 100% chaos and deep blue for 100% law and shades in between for degrees of each. You would then just need to glance at this image to know what you should be striving for and how badly.

    2. Show opponent's law/chaos composition as well as your own
    I know this may be unpopular as your opponent's spells are meant to be secret but you can get an idea of what spells your opponent has now just by checking what staff they have. At the moment you could have 70% law spells but you would still not be sure that pushing for a law universe would be a smart move, if your opponent had 90% law spells you would just be playing into their hands. If you knew that you had 80% law and your opponent had 80% chaos then you would know that you would be able to absolutely cripple their chances by getting the balance strongly into law.

    3. Make law/chaos balance have a negative as well as a positive effect
    You would be able to hurt your opponent even more if a 20% swing to law meant all chaos spells were 20% harder to cast as well as law spells being 20% easier. This isn't how the original worked, a 20% Red Dragon would never go lower than this no matter how lawful it became. I often wondered why this was the case though, if law spells are suddenly easier to cast should this not be balanced out with harder to cast chaos spells? As the universe shifts more and more towards law it would mean the chance of the stronger chaos spells would drop to zero. They would never be useless though as you could always cast them as illusions, burn them for mana, or use mana to boost the casting chance above zero. A strong law shift though would really hurt a wizard with mainly chaos spells. A battle between an 80% law and an 80% chaos wizard would be fascinating as it would be as much about who wins the law/chaos war than what was happening on the field. It would also mean that the chances of getting total chaos or total law would be greater as once the balance starts to shift one way it would likely snowball more and more as it would become increasingly difficult to drag it back the other way.

    4. Have the law/chaos spells in Chaos Reborn
    These are the spells from the original that did nothing other than shift the balance towards law or chaos. Sometimes though having Chaos2 would be useless when what you really wanted was to make it more lawful so I would recommend this be changed to a single law/chaos 'Balance Shift' spell that lets you choose when you cast it if you want to make it more chaotic or lawful.

    If all of the above ideas were implemented then nobody wanting to win their game would neglect to consider the law/chaos balance again!
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    goldendragon76
     
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  • goldendragon76 wrote:4. Have the law/chaos spells in Chaos Reborn
    These are the spells from the original that did nothing other than shift the balance towards law or chaos. Sometimes though having Chaos2 would be useless when what you really wanted was to make it more lawful so I would recommend this be changed to a single law/chaos 'Balance Shift' spell that lets you choose when you cast it if you want to make it more chaotic or lawful.


    Great idea!
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    Tess
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  • I don't think I'd want a very law environment to negatively influence the chance of casting chaos spells (and vice versa).
    I do pay attention to the balance, I think it is a good indicator of whether high-end creatures are fake.
    I quite like the way it works at the moment, and I'll often try to keep the game neutral so as to prevent enemy high-end creatures coming out. I will sometimes push one way or the other if I really need to get something of ny own out.
    I'd be interested in trying out any of the other suggestions, but I do like the way the law chaos swingometer plays at the moment: I especially like being able to burn to take some of the random out of the game, it feels like a good mix of random and planning instead of lots and lots of random.
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  • Number 4 definitely - Having the law/chaos spells in there would be great, balance shift too could be interesting, though it would need a lower casting chance.
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  • 1 is good too actually, anything that makes the game easier to interpret is a good idea.


    2 I don't like on the basis that I think your opponent's hand should be as blind to you as possible

    3 Whilst this would make the law/chaos balance more relevant I think that there's already a case whereby once it tips strongly in one direction it (still) gives advantage to the wizard who was trying to tip it; I wouldn't like to see that advantage be any greater.
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  • Especially in 1v1, alignment is more important than people give it credit for. Wizards that play into their opponents staff have a tendency to get crushed by the number of high power creatures that are suddenly arrayed against them.

    In 4 player games it is certainly less of an issue for, but it still can be effective to play into your power and to try and keep your opponents from getting their spells cast either cheap or with high bonuses.
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  • goldendragon76 wrote:1. Improve how your composition of law/chaos spells are shown
    It has already been pointed out elsewhere that these figures are confusing. Perhaps they would be better shown just by an image of something like a wizard coloured deep red for 100% chaos and deep blue for 100% law and shades in between for degrees of each. You would then just need to glance at this image to know what you should be striving for and how badly.


    I don't think this would be an improvement, what colour would 30% law, 40% chaos, 30% neutral be? I think the colour would give you less information and be harder to decipher than the current numbers. If anything a pie chart or something similar would be the easiest thing to look at and get an instant idea, would be easy to include neutral too, but you would still need the numbers to be able to try and gauge the strength of the remaining spells.

    goldendragon76 wrote:2. Show opponent's law/chaos composition as well as your own
    I know this may be unpopular as your opponent's spells are meant to be secret but you can get an idea of what spells your opponent has now just by checking what staff they have. At the moment you could have 70% law spells but you would still not be sure that pushing for a law universe would be a smart move, if your opponent had 90% law spells you would just be playing into their hands. If you knew that you had 80% law and your opponent had 80% chaos then you would know that you would be able to absolutely cripple their chances by getting the balance strongly into law.


    I can't decide whether I like this or hate it, my instinct says hate it but I'm not sure why...

    goldendragon76 wrote:3. Make law/chaos balance have a negative as well as a positive effect
    You would be able to hurt your opponent even more if a 20% swing to law meant all chaos spells were 20% harder to cast as well as law spells being 20% easier. This isn't how the original worked, a 20% Red Dragon would never go lower than this no matter how lawful it became. I often wondered why this was the case though, if law spells are suddenly easier to cast should this not be balanced out with harder to cast chaos spells? As the universe shifts more and more towards law it would mean the chance of the stronger chaos spells would drop to zero. They would never be useless though as you could always cast them as illusions, burn them for mana, or use mana to boost the casting chance above zero. A strong law shift though would really hurt a wizard with mainly chaos spells. A battle between an 80% law and an 80% chaos wizard would be fascinating as it would be as much about who wins the law/chaos war than what was happening on the field. It would also mean that the chances of getting total chaos or total law would be greater as once the balance starts to shift one way it would likely snowball more and more as it would become increasingly difficult to drag it back the other way.


    I don't like this one at all, I think within the first 3 turns you could get a situation where it was almost impossible to get the swing back the other way if a couple of high value spells were cast and suddenly all law spells were 15% harder to cast the disadvantage would be huge. If you were playing a 4 player game and you had 2 players that had mostly law and 1 that had a mix and 1 that had mostly chaos then within about 5 turns the chaos player wouldn't be able to cast a single creature without it being illusion (which everyone would know and instantly disbelieve). They would have no chance at all to win. At least if the cast chance doesn't reduce they still have a chance it is just tougher.

    goldendragon76 wrote:4. Have the law/chaos spells in Chaos Reborn
    These are the spells from the original that did nothing other than shift the balance towards law or chaos. Sometimes though having Chaos2 would be useless when what you really wanted was to make it more lawful so I would recommend this be changed to a single law/chaos 'Balance Shift' spell that lets you choose when you cast it if you want to make it more chaotic or lawful.


    I believe these will be in the finished game.

    I think the single easiest change that would make me pay more attention to the law/chaos balance and use it in a really meaningful way would be to be able to see what spells are in my deck. Having said that one of the first things I look at is the numbers and I keep an eye on them throughout.
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