The Instant Defrosting

Report any bugs you find here. Include the steps for reproducing it if you can, and the version number.
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gary
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The Instant Defrosting

Post by gary » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:33 pm

So 6 player game, 3 players left.

Player 1 - is walled in and casts a giant megaspell
end turn
Player 2 - whose wall it is, flies over on his undead manticore and dispels the wall encasing P1 and attacked them. P1 lives
end turn
Player 3 - moves his units, one of his hellhounds freezes the undead manticore. This is on purpose knowing it exposes P2. P1 is like, there is hope.
end turn
turn counter turns over from turn 16 to turn 17
Player 1 - gives out a load WTF as he see P2's manti unfreeze taking away any hope of the giants smushing the undead manticore and its rider in to a sticky pulp on the landscape.

Why did the manitcore unfreeze so quickly and not on the turn of the player it belongs to? This felt totally wrong and not in keeping with how it is supposed to be.

Can a dev confirm if this is a bug or by design and if the later clarify when a paralyzed unit gets it roll to decide if it stays frozen or it become free.
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anjovi
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by anjovi » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:02 pm

might be worth changing if so...i've never really used it myself for how unreliable it was.

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gary
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by gary » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:08 am

I had the impression is was like the agility stat which is rolled on the players turn to determine if things are engaged or not.
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Aka
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by Aka » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:17 pm

Been noticing this more now. This is an issue that reflects imo an imbalance with the Neutral set in general.

Apparently, paralyze is rolled every turn during MP games. making it effectively more useless than I had already previously thought. The Neutral deck feels to me to be underpowered, especially in regards to its capacity to deal with the undead. Paralyze is supposed to be a part of that arsenal, but it needs to be adjusted so the RNG rolls for release at the start of the paralyzers next turn... right?

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gary
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by gary » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:06 am

Do we have any clarification on this?

As the other night in a battle myself and the mighty Jimbat were fighting, Jim cast paralyze and froze a vampire and something else.

Correct me Jim if i am wrong but by the end of your same turn both had unfrozen which resulted in me saying to you how useless this spell is.
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blobka
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by blobka » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:43 am

Yeah, I also want to know as P1 has been certain that there is hope and got ruthlessly betrayed soon afterwards, in this circumstances, no good :(
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anjovi
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by anjovi » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:45 pm

yeah...this sounds like a pretty bad design choice.

One is that it makes things inconsistent between 2 to 6 player games. Why should paralyze unfreeze faster? The simulated time (thinking in real time) shouldn't be effected by whether theirs 2 or 5 wizards present...Otherwise, if i'm player 1, why would i bother risk it, trying to paralyze player 6, as they would most likely unfreeze by the time it got to their turn? something that would most likely result in your wizard getting knocked out (being in paralyze range and all)

I'm just assuming it's a bug.

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CGR
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by CGR » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:45 pm

Creatures should attempt to "deparalyse" at the end of their own turn.
This is similar to the way they break out of web or wall.
This means you can guarantee that a creature will be useless (at least if paralysed) for the entirety of the victim's turn.

I've just observed this in a 6-way game (first 3 players human, last 3 (dead) players AI), where I replicated the situation gary described: the deparalyse code is only called at the end of Player 2's turn.

So, are there any other things I should try when attempting to replicate the original problem? Were any of the wizards (active or dead) AI? Was the undead manticore originally someone else's (e.g., Player 3's)?

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Aka
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by Aka » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:54 am

Hey CGR.

I've cursed out loud a number of times regarding paralyze in the last few weeks :) Now that you mention the way it is supposed to work (rolling for de-paralyze at the end of the paralyzed wizard's turn) I'm not positive that this is a bug. Whether it is or isn't, though, it feels off as a spell. If it is supposed to roll according to the order of turns, that creates a biased situation in the game, If I'm player number 2 going up against player number 3 etc. my creatures will be stuck for very different lengths of time, if we are paralyzing each other. In a multiplayer situation, this creates an imbalance.

The situation is compounded, imo, due to the weakness of a Neutral deck in dealing with the undead. Paralyze is part of a very limited palate.

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gary
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Re: The Instant Defrosting

Post by gary » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:01 am

Thanks for looking at the CGR.

I dont know what else to tell you other than a lot of times if feels that the unparalyze roll has no set pattern. Certainly in the first example i gave it is clear that the manti unfroze not at the end of thier turn as it got froze/unfroze after and before their turn.

It feels like it is rolled every end of turn regardless of whose turn it is. There is no other way to explaing how random it seems.

I wish i could give you a way you could replicate it but I cant. But I am positive something is amiss with it.
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