The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

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SpiteAndMalice
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The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:33 pm

So main season 1 of The Goo-Power Championship is finished.

How did everyone find it?
Does a league system work?
Did it make VP useful?

One thing I'm happy about is that all games were finished by the 22nd - I was hoping that we'd be done by the end of the month, and we got nicely inside it. (And that's with a couple of people taking vacations).
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Mazy
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Mazy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:01 pm

It was good Spite, async works well for these things. I like the whole 'goal difference' stat, it's by far the best use of VP's. I reckon it could work as a bigger league also, anything between 2 to 6 extra players per league would stretch out the overall points scored tally, or better still, the same size league(s) but with 'home/away' legs, everyone plays each other twice and in case of any tie at the top you could have the players aggregate head to head record count first and then goal diff.

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by worto03 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:27 pm

loved it - not sure if it needs changing really - does the next season start now?

I guess you need to know if everyone from the last season is playing again and if there are any new players to come in?

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:25 pm

Mazy wrote:It was good Spite, async works well for these things. I like the whole 'goal difference' stat, it's by far the best use of VP's. I reckon it could work as a bigger league also, anything between 2 to 6 extra players per league would stretch out the overall points scored tally, or better still, the same size league(s) but with 'home/away' legs, everyone plays each other twice and in case of any tie at the top you could have the players aggregate head to head record count first and then goal diff.
I can certainly try adding more players into a league - I want to keep few enough that promotion and relegation is always on the cards though. We can't do home/away fixtures with Challonge at present. There might be something else that allows that however... it'd be a good way to set match conditions so that they suit everyone.
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by suprass81 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:05 pm

It was very good experience :D Nothing more to say! All work good. Thanks and wait for more :D

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Viking34 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:18 pm

I liked the system too! :D

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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by gary » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:22 pm

While I get the use of VPs for table placings, to me there are issues with using them.

Although the game might be a draw in terms of the Goo, out with of that it is marked as a win or a lose depending on the VP's and effects a players win/lose stats.

VP's can work against you in terms of having a quick kill as opposed to a long game where it may be possible to get a bigger VP total.

I dont have an answer to these issues but for example if you look at this months result, congrats btw, the winner of the GD division won it because of VP's. If you look at that the runner up actaully got more wins but the winner had 4 draws. For me in a tie like that should go to the person with the most wins. Not that I am belittling draws but it kind of highlights how VP's can effect things.
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:48 pm

So there's 2 issues with VP - One being that a VP Draw as we class it still affects your in game win % - Are people concerned about this?

The other and probably bigger issue is, does VP work as a fair way of sorting players who are otherwise tied for points at the end of a Goo-Power season?

The alternative means of sorting positions are:

Points Difference (This is what I'm using VP for)
Points Scored (Which again employs VP)
Wins vs Tied Participants (Who won the game between the players that are level?)
Match Win
Game/Set Win (We're not employing Sets, so this is mute)
Match Win % (Same as Match Wins, except people can complete different amounts of games)
The Median-Buchholz System (You tell me)

I think if all else ties then the tie breaker will be based on Alphabetical Order, or the order in which players are sorted at the start of the tournament.

The reason I've picked the system I'm using currently is so that we always have a definite way of sorting players who are tied on points at the end of the season. VP are unique in being able to do this. I currently use:

1 Points Difference
2 Points Scored
3 Wins vs Tied Participants

I think we could switch to Wins vs Tied Participants - That sorts out any 2 way ties, but it doesn't necessarily resolve 3 way ties (or higher).

We could also switch to number of Wins, but I'm sort of factoring this in already by allowing 3 points for a win and only 1 point for a draw. I think if number of Wins were to be the main sorting factor then I'd be inclined to only give 2 points for a win (otherwise you're double punishing a draw). And if we went to 2 points for a win, then we end up with a lot more draws, and I'd rather the incentive stayed on trying to gain a victory. Likewise I don't want to drop to 0 points for a draw as I feel that gaining a draw is a worthy result in itself.

Points Scored is open to a lot of abuse if it's the main sorting factor. As is Match Win % (You could play 1 game and be at 100%)

Median-Bucholz is kinda like ELO (Did you google it?) As such for me it doesn't work for a tournament where everyone plays against the same opposition.

What does everyone else think?
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by Obsilium » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:53 pm

I would like an official ruling about surrendering (and other forms of VP manipulation) if VP are to remain the primary tiebreaking method.
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Re: The Goo-Power Championship - Feedback

Post by SpiteAndMalice » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:58 pm

NB The purpose of using VP for this tournament initially was to demonstrate a way in which VP could have a use within the game.

I think we've done that, and whilst they're still not ideal, I personally like the use of them this way. That's not to say that we can't try out something different, and I'm certainly open to idea that would improve things.

A valid question that was asked part way though the season from Obsilium was 'Could he Suicide in order to prevent a hefty VP defeat?' The answer I gave at the time was 'no.' Whilst I don't think I could police this, to me it's good sportsmanship to play out a match to its end, even if you are on the losing side (and with Chaos there are no guarantees of that.)

But again, what does everyone else think? Do we agree that No suicide is an unwritten rule?
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